The one she posted before moving the goalposts.
…I haven’t changed the definition.
I’ve cited the definition. And I’ve presented the arguments of Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, the South African case at the International Court of Justice, the UN Special Committee, and the UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and Israel who are all using the very same definition and have all come to the same conclusion. Hundreds and hundreds of pages, including declarations of intent.
…you moved the goalposts.
I was just showing you that even under your new definition: it’s still genocide.
(and FYI: its he/him)
Sorry, no idea where I got this idea but I thought you were female.
…all good.
Sure.
A poll of Palestinians conducted by the Fafo Foundation in 2005 found that 65% of respondents supported “Al Qaeda bombings in the USA and Europe”.[118]
Explain to me how treating a group of people (Palestinians) who democratically elected Hamas in 2006, who started a war, where opinion polls show the majority of palestinians supported the Oct 7th attacks that started this war, and a people whom the majority supported Al Qaeda attacks like 9/11, how treating them as innocent brown victims is going to help the democrats win 80 million votes in 2028.
…there are millions of innocent brown victims in Gaza.
America managed to vote in Donald Trump for President twice. America has started multiple wars and is currently funding and supporting a genocide.
Does that mean there are no innocent white people in America?
Because the majority of Democrats think Israel is committing a genocide, as do a large number of independents and even a growing minority of Republicans. Because genocide is bad, genocide is wrong, and many people in America thinks its bad and wrong to fund and support a genocide and want to vote for someone that opposes that.
Because the last Dem administration supported and funded this genocide: and they ended up losing the House, the Senate and the Presidency. And doing the same thing all over again may well have the very same result.
When you’ve got nothing to lose you may as well just do the right thing.
No; they are trying to destroy Palestine because they are a colonialist power. Destroying Palestine was a core mission of Israel from the moment it was founded, just as eradicating the Native Americans was for the US. And Israel is very much following the US playbook on that, including provoking attacks on itself and then using those attacks to justify mass slaughter.
That is what Biden did. I have a naive impression that there are more effective things a politician can threaten them with. This is not Russia we are talking about. However, as you acknowledge, the Democratic party and their power base do not care.
Hey Wes, opinion polls are great for creating marketing campaigns but I’m not sure they’re an adequate basis for genocide.
I’ll tell ya what: if the IDF can find the 65% of their sample size from your 20 year-old opinion poll, what the heck I guess we can let them genocide those folks. I’m willing to bet none of them will be children.
My point is that this is a war based heavily on tribalism and the Arab people are not innocent in all this. They will never accept Jews who they see as impure and inferior in ‘their’ land that they repeatedly lost in wars, wars they themselves usually started. It would be like if a black guy moved into an all white neighborhood in Mississippi. The white citizens there would never stop trying to kick him out.
Having said that Netanyahu is a war criminal and he is keeping this war going as long as possible so he can stay out of prison for all his corruption crimes.
It doesn’t matter if they are “innocent”, nothing they do or don’t do will affect what is happening. Nor have they done anything justifying genocide, nor are the Palestinians “the Arab people” in the first place.
Israel has all the power and all the choice in this affair. They are just another colonialist power massacring the locals. And creating provocations to make their victims lash out so they can justify the next rounds of killing is right out of the American playbook; they are imitating what we did to the Native Americans.
You’re free to have that perspective.
But what if the US and China went to war, and the US lost. Then China took over the land of the US, and decided to give Mississippi back to the native Americans who were here first. So all the white supremacists in neighboring states declared war against Mississippi and lost because they feel the US belongs to white christians. Then they declared another war and lost again, Then declared another war against Mississippi and lost again.
Meanwhile Mississippi became wealthy and had a functioning democracy, while the neighboring states like Alabama or Louisiana were impoverished, dysfunctional dictatorships.
Every time the white supremacists declared war on Mississippi, and Mississippi fought back, the white supremacists intentionally put innocent civilians in harms way in the hopes that they could provide the media with video of the Native Americans in Mississippi killing innocent white people and committing genocide in the hopes the international community would put enough pressure on Mississippi to prevent them from defending themselves.
A situation that doesn’t resemble Gaza at all. Israel was created as a colonialist power with the genocide of the Palestinian people as part of its fundamental purpose from the start. It was always going to expel or kill them all if it could; that is an inevitable aspect of creating an ethnostate on already inhabited land. Nor does a “functional democracy” genocide its own population. Apartheid isn’t democracy, especially when it escalates to genocide.
This ethnic blame bullshit is one of the most pure and simple examples of bigotry there can be. Gazan civilians as a group do not bear one shred of blame for their own mass murder and starvation.
Gazans democratically elected Hamas in 2006. Hamas engaged in attacks on Israel and started the war on oct 7th. Polls show about 70% of Palestinians supported the attacks that started this war.
What do you believe should happen to Gazans? If you think they are a genocidal, illogically hateful, irredeemably warring people… so what is the logical game plan?
I’m quite curious. If you have such an opinion, what could you possibly say is the resolution? For me, there is no solution unless Palestinians have 1) a vote/representation in Israel, or 2) a state of their own to vote in. That’s it. Anything else is oppression and war.
However, here I have someone who thinks that Gazans are almost irredeemable monsters. What could you think is the endgame? A forever occupation under Israel? No endgame at all? Just keep it going. Don’t think further then that.
*jeez I’m NOT going to use THAT phrase
The problem is that Gaza has been a home to Hamas, and Hamas has been using it as a launching point for attacks against Israel. Israel is our vital ally in that region, and we can’t support Gaza as long as they are a threat.
So because twenty years ago a highly oppressed people (lots of whom are gone today) voted in bad people, and because a highly oppressed people answered a certain way in a poll in recent years, you think that means present civilians (including all the children) bear some blame for their own starvation and mass murder?
People in desperate circumstances with no good options sometimes do desperate things, including voting for bad people or having some good feelings about bad things happening to whom they see as their oppressors. This says absolutely nothing about Gazans as a people except that they are human.
Your rationalization and justification for bigotry is no different than that of American white supremacists.
Its clear why Gazans are so extreme in their politics. They suffer in extreme circumstances. Look at the West Bank, they suffer less so they have the freedom to not be as extreme. Look at Israel, Both the Arabs there are NO WAY NEAR as extreme, and the Jewish population isn’t as extreme too.
Its so clear to me that people’s freedom from extremity in politics are limited by their circumstances. Thus this is why it is important not to put people into extreme situations. Blindingly clear.