Thanks everyone for your input!
I just wanted to let you know that she reacted very positively to my email and offer of help.
Yay!
Bingo!
Little Nym is way too sweet to be taking that crap. She’s never been more than a little fussy whenever I’ve seen her. This other terror is a piece of work!
Shayna, I understand your concerns but I think you are possibly projecting some of your feelings about adult men on to a toddler, and that this is inappropriate. To say a toddler is by nature “abusive” is a misinterpretation, to some degree.
Many toddlers are territorial about possessions and react in different ways to other children. But violence, in general, is more learned than genetic, and in this case the problem would seem to be far more with the mother and how she deals with her child rather than blaming the child because he is male.
She does time-out incorrectly. It is extremely important the child be aware that they did something wrong and feel appriopriate shame for it. A time-out can be short, but strong disapproval must be expressed, the child must be sent to a location where they cannot be distracted by toys or other fun things and during the timeout the child should be aware that the adult is intentionally REFUSING to interact with them at any point during the break. If the child is laughing during or after the tiome-out, these goals have clearly not been achieved. An apology means nothing to a toddler and will not modify future behaviour, particularly in an aggressive brat who will learn, instead, that they can get away with murder at the price of a few empty words.
Of course, Shayna is absolutely right when she says the safety of your child is pre-eminent. Human bites can be serious. Toddlers do bite sometimes, but if it happens repeatedly there needs to be proper discipline, which of course need not be physical. I pernally do believe there are times when mild physical discipline is appropriate for severe transgressions when applied consistently, fairly and when the child fully understands why they are being punished. Not everyone agrees with this, of course.
I don’t think that the point Shayna was making was that the child is necessarily an abusive male, but that toddlerNym would be learning to accept abusive behavior from a male. Whatever the toddler’s motives, he was being a little monster to the girl. Said monster needs to be removed from the girl’s environment for her safety. And if the training shown by the mother is the same in the privacy of their home as it is at Sue’s house, then time out is definitely not enough. And whatever they are doing is not reaching the child.
I realize that there are a lot of dissenting opinions here, but when I was a child I went through a very protracted biting phase. And we’re talking serious bites, the kind that draw blood and leave mouth-shaped bruises. I bit everyone, especially by sister and brother. I bit my friends. I bit my parents. It was completely out of hand, and absolutely NOTHING my parents tried made me stop. I got grounded. I got put in my room after school everyday. I got spanked. I lost dessert and other privileges. Finally, after weeks and weeks and weeks of this, my mom told me that if I bit anyone again, she was going to bite me. She was very firm and very clear about this.
Well, after a few days I bit my sister. So my mom took me aside and told me again that she was going to bite me, as she had promised. After a lot of buildup, she took my index finger and bit it very lightly. It’s still a very clear memory with me. I never, ever bit anyone again (as a child, anyway, hee hee). Something about that finally drove home the lesson that it was not OK to bite, no matter how satisfying it was to me.
My mom and I talked about this recently, and it’s still a memory that haunts her. She was simply at the end of her rope, and that was the only thing she could think of that would affect me. She felt much better when I told her that I hadn’t been traumatized by it. My poor mommy.
Sue, as a parent of three (and in about three weeks, four), as well as someone with some (albeit limited) experience teaching two y.o.'s, I’d like to chime in with a slightly different perspective. When the oldest little Ivorybill was little, Mrs. Ivorybill and I were engaged in rather intensive parenting, which was facilitated by the fact that we outnumbered our offspring. As we’ve added to the flock, had some more experiences, and become outnumbered, we’d likely handle your scenario as follows:
(1) Tell you friend that until UVO gets beyond his agression, you just can’t have the two kids playing together. There doesn’t need to be a lot of heavy baggage associated with this. If she’s your friend, she’ll understand. (And, based on your recent post, she does.)
(2) It might be worth your and UVO’s mom’s time to see about starting a play group where there will be more children. UVO needs to learn how to socialize and might learn faster in a group setting.
(3) We’d not worry about toddler-nym being emotionally scarred by this incident. Fer cryin’ out loud, people, she’s two! Yes, if you put these two kids togther for several years (and w/o UVO learning to control his temper) you might (depending on t-nym’s inherent intelligence, etc.) cause her to accept an abusive situation. OTOH, she might just as well react by asserting herself and by putting a stop to similar situations much faster. Protecting your child should be every parent’s priority, but we also have a responsibility to give them a chance to grow. If you do let the two of them together, you’ll have to closely supervise, and if UVO even starts to act agressive, the visit must end. That should teach two things: t-nym learns to get out of a bad situation, UVO learns that the fun ends when he gets out of line.
(4) Finally, you might want to avoid situations where the kids are tired. After dinner play is often a disaster with little people. Ditto trips out that stray into nap time. Overstimulation and all that. Get 'em together earlier in the day and arrange for the visit to end soon (within an hour) so the frustration doesn’t start to mount.
YMMV, however, and free advice is worth what you pay for it, generally. Good luck.
UVO’s behavior reminds me of a parenting tip we learned by watching my brother-in-law and his wife dealing with their oldest. The poor little guy (PLG) has absolutely no control over his life. None. Zippo. Nada. His mom picks out the clothes they buy for him. Ditto the shoes. She decides what he will wear each day. She doesn’t even offer PLG a choice between two equally suitable options. Input on what to have for lunch? Nope. The list goes on. PLG has had a number of “anger management” issues, much to his folks’ dismay.
Back when we had numerical superiority, we tended to do similar things (though we’d usually let our daughter choose among several options). After a family weekend with seeing PLG in action, we amended our approach. Any control we can reasonably cede to our young 'uns, we do. For example, as soon as he could, we let #2 dress himself. He came up with some interesting combinations (and, at age four, still does) but at least he has some control over some small aspect of his life.
Perhaps UVO is in a situation similar to PLG’s and is frustrated and attempting assert some control (at whatever cost) whenever he can. Then again, he could be the spawn of Satan. If given the opportunity, discreetly check the scalp behind his right ear to see if he has any numerical tattoos…
It doesn’t sound quite parallel to UVO’s behavior, but the child of some close friends of mine had a real biting problem when he was around 18 months. He mostly bit his mother, and it was almost always when he was happy and “worked up.” Eventually they figured out that he thought a bite was like an exaggerated kiss.
In this case, instantly stopping playing with him as soon as a bite occurred, coupled with a very stern “NO biting” and a glare, eventually corrected the problem.
I know this response is very belated, but I just now noticed this post (upon screening the posts of a specific member of SDMB).
It so happens that I have a niece who is an absolute angel. Everybody loves her; she’s kind, does favors for everyone, talks sweetly to everyone…
Believe it or not, she was biter and a hitter as a small child, and just like a few people in this thread mentioned, she outgrew it. It so happens that her father (my brother in law) had been a biter as a child, and now she has a 3 year old son who is a near clone of her both in looks and behavior.
I was never the type to be so physically violent therefore I found his behavior shocking, and when I noticed him hitting a small infant (his cousin) I sternly admonished “NO!” and led him over to my niece.
However, thru all his behavior, I think he’s adorable, and I joke with him and tease him, whereupon he’d mimic my jokes verbatim, and then we’d all start giggling, including him.
My niece understands that it’s a genetic trait passed down from her (and her father). So she and her husband refuse to discipline him physically, only by admonishing him and time-out. It’s very difficult on her and takes its toll physically.
If I were her, I think I’d listen to the advice of a few of the posters on this thread especially Beadalin who advised that biting the biter back LIGHTLY & WITH RESTRAINT is the most explanatory lesson for the child.
There’s also something else I’d like to point out. There’s a very rare disorder (something ending with the suffix “epsy” but not epilepsy) which causes its victims to involuntarily spout curse words. Many people have been guilty of judging these unfortunates, so it was no wonder they’d feel suicidal.
I’m saying this as a reminder of how important it is not to be judgmental off-hand. Because the biting/hitting trait is in many cases a genetic predisposition, and needs to be addressed with kind, understanding firmness rather than with judgmentalism. On the www there’s an article by Helen Palmer, a psychic, who speaks about the difficulty in letting go of one’s ego. She spoke about how her relationship with her young son underwent a 180 degree revolution, once she psychically viewed herself thru his eyes. It was very interesting.
Oops… since I lack a photographic memory, I hereby correct myself (before anyone else does it for me. It’s not an “epsy” but a syndrome, Tourette’s. I read about it long ago, then again in a more recent article, but (as usual) my memory evaded me.
Tourette’s is actually pretty common, although the form where people spout curse words is a very rare form of the disease. It would much more commonly present as a repetitive series of tics and odd facial grimaces.
Interesting! Thanks for the info.
I have two relatives, one of whom keeps squinting and grimacing involuntarily, and I also have another relative whose head every so often revolves & swivels involuntarily. Her son seems to have inherited it, and it seems more pronounced now that he’s approaching middle age.
I wonder if either of those phenomena are Tourette’s or borderline. Of course, it wouldn’t be politic to ask them! 
But, in any case (to keep this thread on-topic) I was just pointing out that biters and anyone with a behavior, appearance, voice, etc. that others aren’t accustomed to ought never to be judged in a non-understanding way. Because it often has its roots in some physical factor (even if as-yet undiscovered). It could be testosterone, or it could be something else. I’m not saying biting should be condoned, but rather approached with understanding firmness, as the foresaid poster’s mother did. Another person who had a very wise mother is Temple Grandin, PhD, an autistic who designed humane livestock equipment.
I haven’t had time to read through the whole thread, so maybe someone has already covered this… sorry. Anyway, obviously there’s nothing to be done if the mother of the child doesn’t see a problem or refuses to do anything about it, other than keeping the children seperated. No friendship is worth risking physical harm to your child.
If she is willing to try a few things, I highly recommend the 123 Magic discipline program. I have a 5 year old daughter who has some fairly severe emotional issues and disciplinary problems. My girlfriend, whom I live with, has a 2 year old daughter who has often been the victim of my daughter’s aggression. Luckily, it’s not been too physical. This has been the biggest issue in our relationship, and once nearly ended it. We’ve been seeing a counsellor for months, and that has helped quite a bit, but we hit a point where the improvement stopped and things were getting harder again. We finally went and say a psychiatrist, fully expecting him to administer medication. He recommended 123 Magic. We’ve only been using the program for a couple of weeks, but we’re already noticing a significant difference.
Basically, it’s an extremely simple, straightforward, well thought-out and consistant discipline plan involving counting to 3 and time outs. I’ve counted and used time-outs before, with few real results, but Dr. Phelan’s particular method is extremely effective. There’s more to it, but a couple of the key points are realizing that kids are not “little adults” who can be reasoned with but self-centered, selfish creatures needing our guidance. And, when you do the couting and time-outs, execute them with no emotion and no talking. This program has proven to be effective and appropriate for both my troubled 5 year old and my girlfriend’s relatively untroubled 2 year old. The best part about it for us is that it drastically reduces the time and energy we spend enforcing our rules and keeping peace, so we’re a lot more relaxed and a lot less pissed.
We got the video and the book. The video is great for an overview, and the book goes into more detail. Both are very funny.
Anyway, check out the website at http://www.thomasphelan.com
BTW, I’m not getting paid for this advertisement