That comment is totally bull. You’ve been reading too many biased sites that are opposed to bullfighting and part of their agenda is to post “facts” that are completely false.
Bullfighting is a cultural event that is taken very seriously and if anything was happening that you are alluding to, it would be stopped immediatly.
Now for my thoughts on bullfighting.
I have been to fights in Guadalajara a few times, and if you can look beyond the cruelty, it’s an amazing event to take in. From the crowds perpective, it’s not a lot different from a championship sporting event in Europe or North America. The fans are incredibly dedicated and almost fanatical. They take this event very seriously.
It is not for the squeamish and I’ve seen tourists there that are literally getting sick. What the hell did they expect!!?? And then they go home and have a steak!
I don’t think this is an event that I could attend on a regular basis, but every few years I have the urge to take in a good bull fight.
I’m from Catalonia, one of the two regions in Spain to ban bullfighting.
Admittedly, there’s some socio-cultural aspects to that ban aside from the fact that it’s animal torture, but come on.
Now, while I do agree that it will eventually die out of its own accord, and I’m aware that horrible things happen in slaughterhouses every day nobody really wants to think about, I think that it’s fair to say that most of us draw a line somewhere in that respect. Much like we draw a line in every moral choice.
“You eat meat, therefore you shouldn’t judge me for being a serial killer, since humans are animals” is not a good argument.
My own definition of the bullfighting arts is a lot wider than what every other poster means by “bullfighting”, including many in which the Horned Ones aren’t hurt beyond a scare (bullruns, vasco-landesas, recorte, rodeo). I prefer this kind, and in the ones where the Horned Ones are killed I consider that it should be done as cleanly as possible, but since those make the no-wounds kinds that I enjoy economically possible, and since that particular variety of bulls and cows wouldn’t exist otherwise, I don’t really have a problem with it. Then again, I also don’t have a problem with hunters hunting, and it’s also not my cup of tea.
Many people consider that running with cows is more dangerous because of that: the cows do have time to learn the game and boy do they like it.
There’s something to that, at least in terms of numbers, but the alternative to industrialized farming is “meat is only for the super-privileged” whereas the alternative to bullfighting is “you have to find an amusement that doesn’t involve killing an animal for no good reason”.
I’ve a little more time for bullfighting than some other “country sports” though, if only because at least it is possible for a bull to seriously fuck you up if you get it wrong.
I’m in the “important cultural tradition” camp. If I were to attend a bullfight, I would probably find it disgusting and distressing; but I don’t consider it to be my place to tell those who are enthusiasts for the activity, that if it were in my power, I’d forbid and abolish it – or to lobby for it to be forbidden / abolished. If I were Spanish or Latin American, I’d reckon that I’d have more of a right to campaign against bullfighting, should I choose to do so.
I’d been thinking of mentioning other parts of the world, which have a tradition of bullfighting which is non-violent toward the animal (e.g. Portugal, and the South of France, if I have things rightly) – interesting to learn as below, that Spain itself has such forms of the activity. (I knew about the Pamplona festival, but none of the rest.)
I find it disgusting, other people may see the way the cow I’ll eat at dinner was raised as disgusting, I don’t ban their fun, they don’t ban my dinner.
You should. I certainly do. It isn’t difficult to come up with a fairly robust ethical and moral yardstick by which you measure cultural practices.
Is the animal made to feel pain and otherwise suffer? yes. Therefore cruel, therefore it is perfectly fine to be critical of it.
Do certain factory farming methods and slaughtering procedures cause unnecessary suffering? yes, again who can blame you can and should be critical of them.
If I invented a sport today called “giraffe fighting” that mirrored the style of, and had the same degree of pain and suffering as bullfighting I would quite rightly be carted off to jail. I fail to see why historically created, barbaric cultural practices get a pass.
“we’ve always done it” is never a suitable justification.
I think bull-fighting is disgusting, but I don’t want it to be banned because I am generally not in favor of banning things. I think bull-fighting could be effectively shamed out of existence.
My only experience of bullfighting comes from watching it on Spanish television, and my reaction was that it was boring. It’s very slow and stylized, not the swashbuckling Tyrone Power type of stuff you might expect based on Hollywood. But I suppose a lot of sports are boring if you don’t know what’s going on.
Even if I thought it was interesting, the cruelty aspect would repel me. But, I’m generally not in favor of banning things just because I don’t like them. Especially things in other countries.
If you’ve never been to a bull fight then you really have no place to have an opinion. I’ve been to several and I find it a pleasant way to spend an afternoon with friends and family.
I want to talk about the comments about eyeball-vaseline and testicle strapping.
For a little over a decade I’ve volunteered in Greyhound adoption here in the US, and that lead me to also volunteering in galgo rescue in Spain. I have a personality quirk that when I get interested in something, I research the hell out of it. I hate being ignorant. So I’ve studied dog racing in depth, and animal cruelty/sadism in general. But specific to this thread, and pertaining to the comments about strapping bull’s testicles in rodeo and covering the eyes with vaseline in bullfights, here are my thoughts:
Generally things like this aren’t made up. They usually aren’t an “industry practice”, but some jerk sometime thought it would be fun or a good idea and did it, and was witnessed by animal rights people who then make claims that it IS an industry practice. This is how claims like that get blown out of proportion. The problem of course is that it really muddies the waters on the issue as to whether the “industry” is really abusive or not. I’m making a distinction (that some may not agree with, and that’s fair) that there is a difference between industry-practiced abuse and just some individual being a cruel, sadistic asshole.
Here’s an example from my greyhound research: When doing meet and greets, people come up and tell you all kinds of horror stories that they “heard about” (and therefore must be true :rolleyes: ). One of these was the “fact” that “they” cut off the dogs ears. (I’ve actually heard all kinds of amazing claims, “they” cut off ears, toes, feet, etc.) Of course that’s the evil “they”, meaning the owners and race kennel people. I researched this, as I mentioned. What I found out was that there was ONE race owner around ten, fifteen years ago who wasn’t real thrilled with handing over his race dogs to the adoption network. He thought that if he did and the dog bit someone, lawsuits would come back to him. As we know now, it’s a silly mindset. But anyway, what he did to try to ameliorate this fear was to cut off the identifying marks, i.e. the ear tattoos. The dogs could not be traced back to him that way.
So yeah, it happened. By one asshole. It’s NOT an industry practice. But the general public, when they hear about things like this, tend to be intellectually lazy and generalize the horror story to “they all do it”.
I have the ability to dislike and get worked up over lots of things. It’s not difficult, really. I can feel bad for victims of female genital mutilation, starving kids in Africa, wartime refugees, child soldiers, “enhanced interrogation” recipients, and still have room to feel that making bulls suffer is bad.
Yeah, I think it’s bad. I think factory farming is worse. I think the way a lot of people keep their dogs is worse. I think the way a lot of people treat their kids is worse. It’s nice that you can muster unlimited outrage, but I just don’t have it in me to worry much about this particular problem, even though I do think it’s a problem.
There are no good rape analogies, but that has got to be one of the most sickening I have ever heard. I can’t say anymore about that in this forum.
Go sit on any random bull in any random pasture. What do you think he will do, naturally? He’ll try his utmost to get you off of there. He’ll buck, jump, snort, turn on a dime and slobber. It’s completely natural behavior. While they are bred to maximize musculature, bad attitude and ‘athletic’ ability, no one has to teach the bull anything.
I get that you heard this somewhere and it feeds your preconceived notions and your rage, but it is trivially easy to disprove. From Wiki:
Horse racing is not torture by any stretch of the imagination. Horses love to run and hate to be overtaken, which is basically racing. The jockey is just there to aim it and keep it from kicking and biting the competition.
Other horses really don’t like being ridden. My wife knew one that was as sweet as sugar but would throw anybody who tried to ride him, then go over and kiss the rider. He got good at twisting his body into amazing shapes so that there was no chance that anybody could stay on him for more than a few seconds, and went pro.