LOL! Tomndebb just moved a similar discussion from GD to ATMB because it was about the boards!
Are we being pranked?
What was wrong with the way the Pit has been functioning? Yes, I gripe about things that are allowed there from time to time then I let it go. But at least I have a place that I can go to gripe.
I’m annoyed much more by deceit and bigotry than I am by language and name-calling. And deceit and bigotry can be found in other forums.
I am reminded of a student who called me a “nasty bitch” in a class of about thirty other students. I corrected him by assuring him that I took a shower every morning…Or of another student who tested me early in my career with a loud “Fuck you!” I got right in his face and said, “Fuck who?”
But I don’t want to get all sentimental and mushy about my teaching days.
Words in themselves don’t bother me. The map is not the territory.
Please don’t mess with the Pit. If the Mods need protecting, then they need to step down or take a break like the rest of us do.
Honestly, how much more of this nonsense are we going to endure?
I did think about where to put this. I considered:
The Pit: as I explained in my OP, someone exhorted Ed Zotti to listen to us. Because almost every thread about the Pit, its rules and mods and admins that I’ve seen has included attacks on the aforementioned mods and admins, I want a thread that offers suggestions as to how the Pit should be. That is, as I said, a *positive *thread. So Ed and yourselves can read our opinions as to what we want the Pit to be like, hopefully without having to sift through any unpleasantness.
Great Debates: I didn’t see this as a debate. Anyway, as has been mentioned, Tomndebb has already moved a board discussion from there to here.
MPSIMS: possible, but see the reason below
IMHO: possible, but the rules state that discussions about the board should be in ATMB. That decided it.
Could you please explain why that rule has now been changed? Any discussions about the Board is going to consist mainly of honest opinions. Should all Board discussions now be put in IMHO?
It’s simple. Any discussion of opinions should go in IMHO. Any discussion about the board should go in ATMB. If you start a discussion about the board which contains opinions, it can end up in either ATMB or IMHO, but whichever forum you put it in is the wrong one and it will be moved to the other for you.
Why can’t I have it in both? No, I’ll go for the Big One: I want my thread in *all *the forums…power, power - I must have power…
I don’t think the “do not threaten harm or wish death on another poster” rule is necessary or useful. At the very least it needs to be severely narrowed down.
Someone may threaten harm in a way that actually sounds like they mean it (as in “I do actually know who you are IRL and I have a gun and if you don’t effin apologise don’t expect to see the dawn”). At risk of significant understatement someone doing this is clearly being a jerk, and cannot possibly be under any misapprehension to the contrary. No other rule is required beyond the “no being a jerk” rule.
Meanwhile, 99.9% of threatening statements are quite clearly just meaningless exclamations. They are actual threats just as much as telling someone to fuck off means you want them to go forth and have sexual intercourse.
From what I have seen, the rule is mostly used as a trumped up charge, involving a pretence of real concern or fear over what is quite obviously just blowing off at the mouth.
Heck, the rule description specifically forbids "hypothetical statements like “it would make me happy if someone ran you over” or “I hope you say that to [someone prone to stabbing people] and they stab you”. No one could possibly take these threats seriously, and while they may be rather unkind things to say, since when has that been a problem in the Pit?
Princhester:
I am so glad you posted that. It’s something I’ve always thought. Wishing harm and using swear words are just two ways to express anger. Presumably the point is to…actually, I’ve had to stop and think here. What *is *the point? You don’t like what someone has said or their attitude, so, rather than try and persuade them they’re wrong through reason and debating skills, you throw a tantrum and swear at them? Whether you say ‘I hate you so much that I want to kill you’ or you say ‘Fuck you, you’re such a fucking cunt you ought to be certified’ seems pretty much of a muchness to me. (The latter has been said to me here. I found it very disturbing, not because of the swear words but because I do have a mental illness. But - checks what forum we’re in; IMHO? then - ‘the very nice person’ who said that, obviously had no idea of my mental condition, and therefore couldn’t tell the sort of impact that would have on me). And there’s the crux of the matter. You can’t know the effect your tirade will have. If you insult someone with actually the desire to hurt or distress them, then I don’t think it makes any difference if you’re wishing harm in a physical *or *mental way. If that is not the intention, why not use words that better explain your intention?
I’d be happy if we dropped all but the first two, really.
Edited to add: After reading Princhester’s post, I think really we could make do with “no hate speech” and leave it at that.
I apologise for my ignorance, but what exactly is hate speech that makes it worse than any other insult or written attack? I guess it’s more than saying ‘I hate you’.
“Hate speech” is generally understood to mean language that is insulting, threatening, or derogatory towards a particular class of people based on race, religion, or sexual orientation.
I think we can do without that, but I’m all for insults based on lack of competency.
I see - and agree. Thanks.
Moving thread from IMHO to ATMB.
You owe us no explanation. Just do shit. We can figure it out all by ourselves.
This thread looks like a Tennis match now.
Edited for formatting brevity, but basically that’s perhaps the most reasonable post I’ve seen on the entire topic in the last few months. Bravo sir.
And I don’t think that it’s just the staff, I think that on a day to day basis **Ed **sicks up for the rest of this sorry lot more than any of us will ever know. We bitch and bitch and I’m sure that when it comes to meetings about the future of the SDMB **Ed ** is just as protective, even though we mostly just kick him in the nuts for his efforts. He fights for us every day, I’m nearly certain. Can you imagine what this place would be like if there was no **Ed **to sit in those meetings? Can you imagine what a desperate corporate overlord would have done here already? And they let us keep going, but all they ask is that we simmer down some, but we can’t even do that.
Sure, he’s no Message Board tycoon, he’s a newspaper columnist. This may take more time than we’re willing to give for him to learn the ropes, but look in your daily or weekly paper and pick out one of the people who write there and wonder how many of them would keep taking bullets for their readers and try to run their own fanboard. Not too fucking many is my guess.
Give the guy a break.
I can’t see any useful purpose for flaming fellow posters, which includes Staff. If that went bye-bye, then the rules would be more clear, also.
I’d leave the PIT for rants, RO, and similar shit.
See, I disagree. I think that rants, RO, and similar shit are completely pointless, and I’d prefer to keep the pit for flaming fellow posters and staff.
The twin missions of the SDMB are to fight ignorance and make wisecracks.
That which advances the mission is good.
That which does not is bad.