What does the acronym ACORN stand for?

[Carol_Stream]

@wring

So, apparently you trust ACORN registrants statements. Once again, good to know.

See, I believe that if ACORN employee stated that they screened out registrants that seemed to them ‘obviously illegitiment’, assholes like you would be screaming. You can’t have it both ways. You can accept that they turn them all in so that the real experts in this verify the legitimacy (which is current reality) or you allow folks you don’t trust to screen out registrants w/o you (or the legitimate folks) knowledge of who they’re screening out.

Let’s get down to brass tacks, so to speak. What good can come of registering Mickey Mouse or Tony Romo in Ohio, for example? You tell me. How is this a good thing?

[Kimstu]

@Carol Stream

And how many times has it been explained to you, NOT TO TAKE BOGUS REGISTRATIONS IN THE FIRST FUCKING PLACE.

Carol, honey, that’s a wonderful idea, and I think it was great of you to have thought of it. You’re absolutely 100% right that if ACORN never allowed a single invalid voter registration card to be created, it would not have any invalid voter registration cards that it was legally required to submit, and the problem of ACORN submitting invalid voter registration cards would completely disappear. Ta-daaa! Problem solved, by Carol Stream!

Now Carol, sweetie, that is such a good idea of yours that I want you to follow up on it. Get on out there and convince every single ACORN registration drive worker that they must NEVER fill out or allow to be filled out any voter registration card of questionable validity, NOT EVEN ONE.

Remember, Carol, it’s not good enough just to say that if workers forge bogus registrations, they’ll be fired and perhaps prosecuted—ACORN already does that! But by the time a lazy or incompetent worker has been detected in creating a bogus registration, it’s too late—the bogus card already exists, and must by law be submitted along with the others! Oh noes! :eek:

So Carol, we’re counting on you to make sure that NOT EVEN ONE ACORN worker EVER creates even ONE bogus card to sully the pure virginal stream of electoral registration processing! Oh, and while you’re at it, you’ll have to get in touch with every single potential new voter that ACORN workers contact too, and make sure that THEY don’t fill out any invalid registration cards either.

That way, we’ll know that we have a 100% pure and clean electoral registration system, and we’ll be so grateful to you for making it happen! So don’t waste any more time here, Carol dear, but get out there on your mission of restoring the integrity to our democratic process!
Or else, if it happens to be the fact that you—like the thousands of workers, volunteers, and new voters involved in ACORN’s registration drive—are only human and CAN’T in fact guarantee that there will never be any bogus registrations slipping through the cracks in the procedure, then it’s time for you to take your lying-beaked harpy head out of your festering feathered harpy ass and shut up your endless frantic harpy screeching about the fact that ACORN’s voter-registration procedures are not 100% error-proof. Stupid twat.

[Jenaroph]

@Carol_Stream

Don’t registrars ask for ID? If some jerk says he’s Mickey Mouse, without an ID, how does he even get a registration form?

Most states (if not all, I haven’t checked) allow registration by mail. Here is a PDF of Pennsylvania’s mail-in application for example. As I understand it, this is essentially what ACORN does; provide the applications, gather them, and send them in to be processed en masse. Nothing too sinister about that.

Note that no ID is needed to fill out the form; you just need to write in your driver’s license number or part of your #SS. The local county voter registration office will process and either accept or reject the application. That’s safeguard #1 against fraudulent applications. Note also that whether your vote the first time in person or absentee, you will be required to provide a copy of ID. That’s safeguard #2. Both of these safeguards are totally out of the hands of ACORN, as they occur after the form has been sent in. Other states’ MMV; like I said, I haven’t done all the research on this.

[Carol_Stream]

@jsgoddess

Registration forms, at least in Ohio, are available to anyone.

You can go to the Ohio website and download and print as many as you want. You can also request they mail you as many as you want. The forms are not restricted.

Whatever, they can download the form. How about some verification when said form is submitted to the proper authorities?

[wonky]

@Jenaroph

I’m glad you asked that. Let’s set the stage:

doodly doop doodly doop doodly doop

You are the manager of the local ACORN office. One of your workers comes in, takes a stack of blank registration forms, and goes out to collect signatures.

Instead of collecting signatures, he goes to his buddy’s house and he and his friend sit at the kitchen table, drink several beers and fill out fake names on the forms.

He comes back to your office six hours later with the stack of filled out forms. You flip through them, notice “Mickey Mouse”, “Britney Spears,” “Shaquille O’Neal” and other suspicious names among the forms, send your worker home and start the process to have him fired, and submit the forms as you must do by law. After flagging them as suspicious, of course.

Let’s do a whole play! The next scene:

You are working for ACORN. You go from house to house, asking people if they want to register. Some say yes, so you hand over forms to them. One of the people fills out the form and hands it to you. He has filled it out as “Nunya D. Bidnez.”

What do you do with the form he has just handed you?

[wonky]

@Carol_Stream

Whatever, they can download the form. How about some verification when said form is submitted to the proper authorities?

Do you think ACORN is “the proper authorities”? The proper authorities are the government offices ACORN submits the forms to. ACORN is just delivering the forms. They aren’t government agents.

[Jenaroph]

@Carol_Stream

Whatever, they can download the form. How about some verification when said form is submitted to the proper authorities?

Aha see, the answer is right in your question; that’s in the hands of the proper authorities, not ACORN. If you have concerns about the proper vetting of applications, your beef is with the local government, whether that’s a city, county, parish, or township clerk, or whatever else you might have.

[Jenaroph]

@jsgoddess

Let’s do a whole play! The next scene:

You are working for ACORN. You go from house to house, asking people if they want to register. Some say yes, so you hand over forms to them. One of the people fills out the form and hands it to you. He has filled it out as “Nunya D. Bidnez.”

What do you do with the form he has just handed you?

Ooo, ooo, I know this one! Wait, don’t tell me…is it…Submit it as required by law?

[Carol_Stream]

@jsgoddess

Do you think ACORN is “the proper authorities”? The proper authorities are the government offices ACORN submits the forms to. ACORN is just delivering the forms. They aren’t government agents.

No, they’re obviously not. But they are perpetuating voter fraud, nonetheless. A nice little RICO conviction might set them straight, but there’s only so much time left.

[wonky]

@Jenaroph

Note also that whether your vote the first time in person or absentee, you will be required to provide a copy of ID. That’s safeguard #2. Both of these safeguards are totally out of the hands of ACORN, as they occur after the form has been sent in. Other states’ MMV; like I said, I haven’t done all the research on this.

To vote absentee in Ohio, you need to first request a ballot either in person or by mail. To request a ballot:

Regular absentee voters

If you are a regular absentee voter, you may use the application form prescribed by the Secretary of State (11-A) to apply for your absentee ballot. If you choose not to use the prescribed form, your written application need not be in any particular format, but it must contain all of the following information:

1. Your name;
2. Your signature;
3. The address at which you are registered to vote;
4. Your date of birth;
5. One of the following items showing proof of your identification:
   1. Your Ohio driver’s license number; or
   2. The last four digits of your Social Security number; or
   3. A copy of your current and valid photo identification, military identification; or a current (within the last 12 months) utility bill (including cell phone bill), bank statement, government check, paycheck, or other government document that shows your name and current address (including from a public college or university).
      (Note: You cannot use a notice that the board of elections mailed to you as proof of identification.);
6. A statement identifying the election for which you are requesting an absentee voter’s ballot;
7. A statement that you are a qualified elector;
8. If the request is for a partisan primary election ballot, your political party affiliation; and
9. If you want the ballot to be mailed, the address to which you want it mailed.

So, no amount of registering exempts you from having to show a form of ID to get a ballot.
Then, when it comes to voting itself:

Early In-Person and Absentee Voting

* The last four digits of voter’s Social Security number; or driver's license number; or
* A copy of a current and valid photo identification, (i.e. Ohio driver’s license, state ID card, government ID). Photo identification must show name and address; or
* A copy of a current utility bill (including cell phone bill), bank statement, paycheck, government check, or other government document that shows the voter’s name and current address (including from a public college or university). 

Election Day Voting

* A current and valid photo identification (i.e. Ohio driver’s license, state ID card, government ID). Photo identification must show name and address (does not need to be current address for driver’s license or state id card); or
* A military identification that shows the voter’s name. (Does not need to show address); or
* A copy of a current utility bill (including cell phone bill), bank statement, paycheck, government check, or other government document that shows the voter’s name and current address (including from a public college or university). 

Note: Ohio law provides you cannot use as proof of identification a notice that the board of elections mailed to you. Voters who do not provide one of these documents will still be able to vote by provisional ballot.

When my husband and I voted yesterday, we had to fill out the application which included drivers’ license numbers. Then hand in the application, display the ID, then fill in the envelope for the ballot that also included drivers’ license numbers.

[wring]

@Carol_Stream

Don’t registrars ask for ID? If some jerk says he’s Mickey Mouse, without an ID, how does he even get a registration form?

@Carol_Stream

Whatever, they can download the form. How about some verification when said form is submitted to the proper authorities?

perfect- 'cause when ACORN submits all registrations to ‘the proper authorities’ they’re doing exactly what you suggest here, allowing the proper authorities to make the call. You apparently agree w/the status quo.

[wonky]

@Carol_Stream

No, they’re obviously not. But they are perpetuating voter fraud, nonetheless. A nice little RICO conviction might set them straight, but there’s only so much time left.

If I go down to the board of elections with a fake ID and register to vote, is the clerk who takes the registration guilty of fraud?

[Carol_Stream]

@jsgoddess

To vote absentee in Ohio, you need to first request a ballot either in person or by mail. To request a ballot:

So, no amount of registering exempts you from having to show a form of ID to get a ballot.
Then, when it comes to voting itself:

When my husband and I voted yesterday, we had to fill out the application which included drivers’ license numbers. Then hand in the application, display the ID, then fill in the envelope for the ballot that also included drivers’ license numbers.

Ok, so how does “Mickey Mouse” get to register?

[wring]

@Carol_Stream

Ok, so how does “Mickey Mouse” get to register?

Register is not the same thing as voting, just as applying for a loan is not the same thing as ** getting ** the loan.

[Jenaroph]

@Carol_Stream

No, they’re obviously not. But they are perpetuating voter fraud, nonetheless. A nice little RICO conviction might set them straight, but there’s only so much time left.

Legally, in this case, voter fraud does not occur until somebody tries to vote using one of the fake names. So RICO has no chance of applying. Nice try though.

Let me set another scenario. I’m a disgruntled citizen watching my candidate’s chances spiral down the tubes. I go to the local farmer’s market one Saturday and see one of those damn ACORN people walking around, trying to register people that I can tell by looking will vote for the other guy. I decided to mess with the ACORN douche by filling out an application with a fake name 'cause maybe I can get him fired. Stupid asshole deserves it, recruiting voters for the other guy.

[wonky]

@Carol_Stream

Ok, so how does “Mickey Mouse” get to register?

If you downloaded the form and filled it out as Bea L Zebub and sent it in, you would have sent in a fraudulent registration, just as some ACORN offices have done (though you would not have flagged it as they did).

If you don’t have the ID as required on the form, you won’t get registered as Bea L Zebub or as anything.

Just filling out the form doesn’t automatically “make you registered.” There are steps involved. The form has to be filled out correctly by the deadline and it has to be processed by the board of elections (or whichever exact agency does that).

Just because that agency receives a form from Bea L Zebub doesn’t mean that Bea L Zebub is registered to vote. It doesn’t mean that Frank R Smoot can show up on voting day and claim to be Bea L Zebub and vote (probably for a damned Democrat!)

[Carol_Stream]

@wring

Register is not the same thing as voting, just as applying for a loan is not the same thing as ** getting ** the loan.

So you’re OK with fake registrations? Why?

[wring]

@Carol_Stream

So you’re OK with fake registrations? Why?

as outlined above, registration is the first step in being allowed to vote. I don’t care that some folks erroniously fill out registration forms anymore than I worry about folks apply for loans they won’t get. Why are you?

[Kimstu]

@Carol Stream

So you’re OK with fake registrations? Why?

Nobody thinks fake registrations are OK, you turnip-headed drooling troll. It’s just that those of us with more than two brain cells to rub together understand that in any mass voter registration drive, some fake registrations will inevitably be generated, due to occasional random acts of ignorance, incompetence, or malice.

The electoral authorities have procedures in place to check suspicious registrations and to verify their accuracy, precisely because it’s impossible as a practical matter to guarantee that no bogus registration cards will ever be submitted.

Have you managed to wrap your thick head around this idea now, or will we have to explain it all to you another five thousand times?

[Carol_Stream]

@wring

as outlined above, registration is the first step in being allowed to vote. I don’t care that some folks erroniously fill out registration forms anymore than I worry about folks apply for loans they won’t get. Why are you?

People apply for loans they don’t get for legitimate reasons. What is the reason for fake voter registrations?