No it isn’t. Cannot apply for asylum outside of the US.
No you didn’t. You stated they could apply for a loan, you didn’t state WHEN they could do that.
That would explain the horrendous abuse.
As you yourself have noted, Leftists are distinguishable from the right-wing in their opposition to the horrendous abuse of innocent infant children, so all we need to do to stop it is elect a Democrat.
Granted, under a Democratic administration the occasional non-infant inmate may not have access to a toothbrush for 12 hours (which I believe is your current excuse for ignoring the horrendous ongoing abuse of innocent infant children by the Trump administration, God bless you), but I think that’s a risk I’m willing to take.
I’ve noted that leftists’ opposition appears to me to be largely situational: if it’s something that can be blamed on President Trump, then it’s “horrendous abuse”. If it’s something that can’t be then “that’s a risk [you’re] willing to take”. For example, the outrage over the missing toothbrushes: Back when you guys thought you could pin that on President Trump, it was all “this is the banality of evil on full display” and the like, but now that I’ve educated you that it was Obama depriving children of their toothbrushes, we’re back to ‘no big deal’ / “I think that’s a risk I’m willing to take” (nod to Banquet Bear for being the exception to this attitude). Like I said, your (collective) opposition appears to be situational and conveniently aligned with your politics.
Well thanks to showing all that you do not know that when talking about whataboutism it does not excuse the current issue, it really doesn’t.
[QUOTE]Now-- Now this technique of saying “what about…” is actually an old Soviet propaganda tool, and the reason it is dangerous is because it implies that all actions, regardless of context, share a moral equivalency, and since nobody is perfect, all criticism is hypocritical and everybody should do whatever they want.
It is a depressingly effective tool, which is why, on Trump’s favorite network, you hear it all the time.
[[del]FAUX[/del] FOX nexs whataboutism many examples]
Okay, stop, stop, stop, because here is the thing, none of the errors those people may have made in the past excuse the Trump administration’s actions. A defense attorney could not stand up in court and say, “Maybe my client did murder those people, but I ask you this… What about Jeffrey Dahmer? -What about Al Capone? -(AUDIENCE LAUGHS) What about the guy from the Silence of the Lambs? I rest my case here, people. I rest my case.”
The problem with whataboutism is it doesn’t actually solve a problem or win an argument. The point is just to muddy the waters.
[/QUOTE]
None of that post explains why you’re an apologist for concentration camps. You wiggle more than one of those inflatable cloth dudes at a car dealership in a hurricane.
“Some” can mean “a good bit”, which is how I meant it here.
The US has had anti-migrant policies for many decades. Trump has incrementally worsened the situation as other presidents have done, specifically Golden Boy Barack Obama. The immigration laws haven’t changed all that much as far as I know.
I’m NOT interested in fact checking, if by that you mean 'determine if this person is liberal enough to be read by ‘dopers’. I don’t give a fuck what their political affiliation is, to be honest. I quoted the parts I quoted because I found them compelling. Who wrote it or what their politics were less important than the content of what they were saying. Unlike 'dopers in this thread who found a handful of historians who said what they wanted to hear and then were used as an appeal to authority. I wasn’t trying to score points and I HAVE no political gain since I’m not in politics. I also knew that anything I posted in this thread, including anything I linked too would simply be dismissed as it doesn’t go along in lock step with the mob in this thread. Hell, when I said I thought we should focus on funding and stay away from charged language I was mocked. When Pelosi did this then folks didn’t say a peep.
Support his policy of family separation? 
No, why would you think I’d be for that? Seriously…what the fuck?
Can I quantify the number of children who have been kidnapped or taken and used in this manner? No. Of course not. I doubt anyone could do more than an estimate. I’ve heard anecdotes stating that some kids have actually bee recycled…used for cover by the coyote types, then taken back to be used again by another group. My WAG is that this is a small number, but it’s just that…a WAG. As to what I was saying there, seems clear to me, but then if you think it was to support Trump’s policy then one of us is either smoking something or it was less clear than I thought it was. Basically, what I was TRYING to say is that people WILL bring their kids. So, we need facilities to accommodate that fact. Families will be detained as they are sorted and processed, either sent back or on the path to becoming citizens. Either way there is going to be some time lag there. There also has to be some way to check to see if the children are in fact the children of the people claiming they are, and if they aren’t a way to get them back to their actual families (assuming they are still alive). DNA testing and kits, perhaps…no idea. All of this will take resources and manpower to do. Which is why I thought the Dems requesting $4 billion to start doing this, to start mitigation is a step in the right direction.
I’m sure I’m totally wrong. As has been pointed out many times in this thread. We should be screeching about CONCENTRATION CAMPS, not trying to fix the issue. It’s SO much more productive. Probably why all the Dems are on board with the consensus here on the 'dope, to be sure.
Yeah, it’s weird how leftists are outraged when the government implements a program of deliberate cruelty toward infants, ripping thousands of them away from their parents and locking them in wire cages in unsanitary conditions, but they were strangely silent that one time when some guy didn’t have access to a toothbrush for 12 hours during the Obama administration. For example, in a clear example of double standards, newspapers now are writing headlines like (actual headline!):
This 4-month-old baby was separated from his parents at the border. Now he is nearly 2 and still can’t speak or walk.
But where was the headline about that one guy who didn’t get a toothbrush for 12 hours? Probably deleted by Obama himself. Double standard! If you hadn’t dug through court cases, no one would have ever known about that poor guy who was traumatized during the Obama administration, and how things were exactly the same then as they are now.
Really, when you think about it, it’s Obama’s fault that you’re forced to bravely ignore the current deliberate infliction of pain and cruelty on innocent infant children.
(Hey, unrelated, but did you ever find the time to research what (former infant refugee) Jesus might have thought about people who excuse and support the deliberately cruel treatment and abuse of innocent infant refugees? Is he against it?)
Respectfully, I think you have this ass-backwards.
Actually, we should be trying to fix the issue with the concentration camps, and not giving into the bullshit Orwellian desire from the right to call them something else because the correct terminology gives them the vapours.
Let’s fix the problem of sticking children in concentration camps. The correct name underlines the extent of the problem and why we need to do something about it quickly.
Yeah, we should more productively be screeching about people screeching about concentration camps, as you are doing.
Right… because adoption doesn’t exist/isn’t really parenting or being part of a family, step-kids don’t count, no one every adopted an orphaned niece or nephew or the orphaned neighbor’s kid and if a parent traveling with a minor dies on the way to a new country well, just screw that kid he doesn’t belong to anybody and you can do anything to him, how dare any other adult in the same group take care of the kid without US government permission! You really need to re-think that statement.
Of course, the right-wing idiots (note, I did not say “Republicans”) are all about THEIR version of family, screw anyone else’s, biology trumps everything else. Except, of course, for the fucking morons who separated kids from adults without providing any means to reunite them in the future. That is yet another example of a Stolen Generation, kids taken from their families and given to other families to raise. We saw it with the Native Americans, the Australian Aborigines, poor white kids in several countries including the US, UK, and Canada, and now it’s happening all over again. It has NEVER turned out well for the kids.
Yeah, not like I’ve offered tangible actions we could or should be doing, just screeching. 
Unlike the majority of the Concentration Camp screecher’s who have offered ‘solutions’ like we should just not have holding camps at all.
Surprisingly to some, there are options other than “put them in camps” and “totally open borders”.
And, respectfully, I disagree (obviously as that’s been the theme in this thread). Myself, I think the first thing to do is to help people and mitigate the problem. Trying to use charged language to labels something is not necessary to do more than score points…it’s not a solution or something that helps in mitigation, it’s a move to try and paint something or spin it or craft the narrative. It doesn’t actually help anyone or have any tangible effect except as a political slam. Getting funding…THAT is tangible, that can potentially help people and mitigate the issues while we figure out what the fuck we are or should be doing, as a nation.
Let’s fix the issue of families, including children being in substandard or hazardous conditions. Naming it means nothing…fixing the conditions, especially as the primary thing, is the most critical thing we need to be focused on until we get those issues addressed to the highest degree possible. THEN, if you want to score points, be my guest. Slam Trump et al over this. Hell, do it WHILE the issues are being addressed for all I care.
I was going to go with a snarky reply, as I’m feeling fairly well attacked in this thread even though I’m not saying anything particularly attack-worthy, IMHO, but…tell me, what are the other options? Historically, the US has put people in facilities for a period while they are processed. This could include health checks, orientation…a host of things. Anyone who has been to Ellis Island has seen one of those facilities. There are others as well.
Then you have the fact that many of the people in these camps tried to illegally enter. They need to be processed somewhere, somehow. I don’t think, logistically, we could just ship them back immediately. And this doesn’t even get into those seeking asylum, which is a whole other thing. I’m all for opening up immigration and streamlining asylum seeking, especially considering the current crisis in Central America (also the Middle East). But no matter what you do, you will need facilities while you process people. So…seems to me, the place to start is by making sure those facilities meet our collective standards and are fully funded and have the resources they need.
Naming things does nothing?
Where were you during the Trump campaign?
Coming up with a solution to the concentration camps shouldn’t be particularly difficult for anyone more than 3 years old–they can just remember the way we did it previously (people less than three years old may need a history lesson).
Obama’ s approach wasn’t perfect (the occasional person may not have received a toothbrush in a timely manner), but at least we weren’t deliberately abusing infants. (I hadn’t realized how many people needed to be convinced that we shouldn’t be abusing infants.)
And I agree that we must do everything we can NOW to mitigate the problem.
But calling these concentration camps by their correct name is part of the solution. It is informing people what they are. And I’m sorry if some folks think that this is " hyperbolic language" or “inflammatory rhetoric” or “charged language” and this makes baby Jesus cry, but it is what it is. It’s not about “scoring points”.
The tangent of “you hurt my feelers by using this accurate word” game was started by the right, promoted by the right.
FIX the problem of putting children in concentration camps. And to hell with how this might make some right wingers uncomfortable because they think we’re calling them names. The right wingers are the ones bitching and complaining about the name, and offering no solutions. Others are using the correct name AND offering solutions.
…it isn’t about “what I mean.” **You **said you weren’t interested in “fact checking.” Its about what **you **meant.
There comes a point where it “stops being an appeal to authority” and it just becomes the authority. That “handful of historians” didn’t just express an opinion. They laid out a case, provided evidence, provided historical context. None of that were rufuted by the article you cited.
Of course you were.
Nobody in this thread are “in politics” either.
It has nothing to do with any “mob.” The article was fairly refuted by many different people here for many different reasons.
Characterizing responses to you as “being mocked” is not a fair reflection of the responses to you. I didn’t mock you. I addressed the words that you said.
Why would you regurgitate the Trump talking points that were used specifically to justify the child seperation policy?
Actually HurricaneDitka did cite the numbers provided by the administration. “400 such attempts this year.” 900% increase on 2017. That wasn’t an “estimate.” It was a positive assertion made by a spokesperson for Homeland Security.
You really need to be questioning the “900% increase” from 2017 to 2018. Because that figure changed everything. If that figure was a lie: then you are committing a disproportionate amount of time, effort and money to figure out a solution to a problem that doesn’t really exist.
Since AOC “screeched” about CONCENTRATION CAMPS this story hasn’t dropped out of the news cycle which is a remarkable achievement considering most Dem-lead stories struggle to maintain headlines for more than a few hours at most. We are still talking about it. People are donating more money to organizations dedicated to helping people at the border, people are rallying and I’m hearing increasing chatter about renewed protests and action.
The conversation has shifted. The narrative has been yanked out of the hands of the administration. Thats the entire point. When the administration control the narrative they can do stuff in secret. When they lose control of the narrative they pull back, they back-track, we can hold them to account.
And it was done with a single tweet.