Your personal opinion of what is unethical anyway. That’s why I have a problem with it. What makes you so sure you can judge what is ethical or not in others that you feel justified in seeking to alter their behavior? Don’t fundamentalists feel equally as justified in treating gays badly and making them uncomfortable so they’ll change their behavior?
LSD is a dangerous drug. People have done many stupid things throughout history. This doesn’t make them correct.
Neither. He doesn’t know what he is. That’s the problem. Depending on what part you’re reading he’s either gay, straight, asexual, femme, or boyish, hence the “confused” part.
Did it cure your asthma?
Jesus Christ! Are you just looking for trouble here? He can be whoever he wants to be. I hope he finds out who he is, but I feel pretty fucking confident after reading through his entire fucking site that trying to be Peter Pan isn’t the answer. There’s been several “answers” before he tried the Peter Pan gig, you see.
Everybody’s lauding this guy for his self expression and not denying his true self, but that’s not how I see it. And, if that’s what they see, I don’t think they really read his webpages. He seems to me to be a fairly troubled guy who’s tried one thing after another to find out who he really is, and now it looks like he’s built up a false self-image and is acting as if that is his real self.
You can read it and feel differently. That’s fine. That’s what I see when I read it. It’s a considered stance, and I’ve more than taken the time to explain the reasoning behind it.
But sweetheart, you don’t know what my father said to me because I never told you what he said to me. You just assumed it was about being gay, which it wasn’t. And when you assume, you make an ASS … you know the rest.
Upone whose else opinion should I base it on?
I do not assault people or turn children out of their homes in accordance with my ethical beliefs. On the other hand, fundamentalists are perfectly within their rights to attempt to make me feel uncomfortable with my homosexuality by their words and peaceful actions to their little hearts’ delight. (I reserve the right not to actually become uncomfortable, of course.) And I will be right there discomforting them back. Comfort the disturbed, as Cesar Chavez said, and disturb the comfortable.
People are fluid. Perhaps one label doesn’t work for him all the time as well as it seems to for you.
And I ask again: how do you know? You’ve given me lots of evidence that you and others are uncomfortable with the fact that he dresses and acts like Peter Pan, but none that this is wrong for him.
How is this self-image any falser than any of the myriad self-images that everyone else builds for themselves?
“We’ve all got an image that we want to convey/And drag is something each of us does every single day…” - Romanovsky and Phillips
Is that all there is, then? From where I’m sitting, it’s inadequate.
I would not be surprised if Scylla changes his UserName to Sigmund Freud, seeing as how he apparently under the delusion that he’s a hot-shit psychoanalyst.
I am not making any claims at all about what is right or wrong for him. You are. You have presumed on several occasions to tell us that he is not doing what is right for him, and that therefore you know what is right for him, on the basis of what evidence I do not know.
You have advanced the view that he is mentally ill. A person who is believed to be mentally ill can be fired from their job, incarcerated, and medicated. Your position is therefore an extraordinary claim, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary justification. You have not provided extraordinary justification for this point of view.
Much as I might enjoy that, I am not the one who has taken a position so self-righteous as to determine that a person in another city than mine is mentally ill without ever having spoken to them.
Oh buushit. You said it was right for him in your last post for chrissakes.
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I’ve “presumed” to answer the Op, with my opinion, which is what this thread is about, and my opinion that he is a troubled guy is just as valid as all the opinions that state he’s a self-assured individualist expressing himself.
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What are you, blind? I’ve quoted his site, and shared my reasoning extensively. You’re playing games. Worse, you’re just being an ass, as you’ve ignored my reasoning. You’re attacking me, not my arguments and I find that cowardly and self-righteous.
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Bullshit. I’ve said it is my opinion that he was troubled, fucked up, and nutty. I’ve made it clear on no fewer than 3 seperate occasions that mine is not a professional opinion, but a layman’s.
Total bullshit. None of those things can be done based on a layman’s opinion as you very well know. That would recquire a professional evaluation, which I have not in any way shape or form offered. My laymen’s opinion is simply that, not a legally actionable professional evaluation, and as such it recquires no extraordinary justification.
Insanity isn’t a label you can use lightly. Well, since we all seem to be in Sigmund Freud drag today, let me think of the best definitions I know of insanity:
[list=1][li]Is he a danger to himself or others?[/li]Probably not. He doesn’t seem suicidal, and somehow I don’t expect to see a headline like “Man dresses up as Peter Pan, shoots 14 people, kills self.” The real psychos all seem like normal people, so I think we have little to fear from him. His only casualty is good taste.
[li]Is he delusional?[/li]Begs the question of what reality is, but if we’re assuming standard definitions, and since we seem to agree he doesn’t think he actually is Peter Pan, he is not delusional.
[li]Will this interfere with his life? His job? His love life? His happiness?[/li]This is the most controversial definition, but let’s run with it for a moment. His boss seems to have no problem with it. He seems to have found his Tinkerbell, so he’s doing a lot better than the rest of us. And he seems happy.
[/list=1]
Would I want to have this guy over for dinner? is not, Scylla, a useful method for determining sanity.
Yeah, you’re right. I knew you were right, and I know you’re right. That’s part of the game Matt’s playing. He doesn’t like my opinion so he’s doing his best to make me uncomfortable for stating it.
He’s not debating or reasoning, he’s just being an asshole and attacking me in an attmempt at what he feels is justifiable coercive censorship.
It’s PC activism at it’s worst, and IMO it’s worse to say nothing or pretend you don’t have a dissenting opinion and let them get away with it.
Oh get off your goddamn cross, Scylla. It’s not the fact that you think the guy is a bit nutty.
It’s the fact that you are trying to say, with certainty, that he’s insane, or mentally ill, when you don’t even know the guy, nor do you have a fucking psych degree.
I still say he’s an eccentric genius. Very highly highly intelligent people tend to be a bit loopy.
SO FUCKING WHAT?
I mean, really-what’s the big deal? I’m not saying that to defend Peter Pan or whatever, just asking-what the fuck does it MATTER? I mean, jesus christ on a stick, what is the big deal? Why do you care so much?
I don’t believe a licensed mental health proffesional would say that Mr. Pan (not you, kabbes) has a mental disorder unless he were to be suffering adverse social, economic, etc. consequences because of his, err, hobby. In other words, if he were fired from his job because he insisted on wearing green tights to meet clients, his hobby would likely be sliding toward a diagnosis of a mental disorder. Since we don’t know how this affects his personal life – for all we know it actually benefits him – we can’t diagnose him with a mental disorder.
Having said that, I think it is quite obvious that the guy does have some symptoms of what could be a mental disorder. That’s not saying much because everyone has some such symptoms. Some of his are just more obvious to the casual observer than most.
So knock it off! You’re BOTH right. It’s less filling AND it tastes great, alright?
Around the bend or not, wouldn’t it be fun to have this guy as a neighbor? Especially if he lives with Tinkerbell? I can see the look on the Fed Ex guy’s face now!
I agree completely, Scylla- I’ve just already trod this road and don’t feel like doing it again.
For what it’s worth, I don’t think he’s “crazy”. I’m a student of psychology and would not define someone as such. (unless I was joking)
I would, however, strongly suspect that he may have some sort of gender identity issues or a personality disorder (with his whole “I won’t grow up” thing and all). I don’t KNOW this, but I suspect it.
I don’t think he needs to be removed from society, locked up, or medicated. If he is not causing harm to himself or others, that’s his business. I do think that he is living in a total fantasy world that sooner or later will likely be brought to a halt by having to deal with grown up issues, like losing his job, a death, or his “Tink” leaving him.
It is difficult to say from his website, but I DO think he may have a personality disorder of some sort. That does NOT mean crazy (any more then saying someone who appears depressed or overwhelmed with anxiety is crazy).
The reason I’m not going to argue this is because you cannot address it from a potentially clinical perspective without people jumping all over your shit over your opinion. No one here has enough information to draw a conclusion either way, but one’s opinion could certainly lean based on what is posted on his website.
My point is: you cannot argue this point because these are vastly different perspectives. Some people (like me) see him as a possibly troubled person who is living in a fantasy world that may end up with problems because of it. Others see him as whimsical and free, someone who is in touch with his true self.
It does no good to point fingers and call names- we are each entitled to our perspective, whether the other person agrees or not.
By the way, I don’t want to be challenged for professional credentials, and you can look it up yourself if you want further information, but there ARE personality disorders that sometimes manifest themselves with the person dressing or behaving very outlandishly for attention. Since I’m not planning on spending any more time on Peter and his situation, I’ll leave it to any interested parties to investigate that angle.
Zette
Zette:
I think a key question is “What is disordered?” Lots of people indulge in behaviors that most other people would consider unconventional, odd, or curious. Behaviors that most other people, even if they found such behaviors appealing, would be loathe to engage in because they are so concerned with other people’s opinions.
Whatever labels you want to slap on it or not, I think this guy is both happy and harmless. After all, it’s hardly as though the people of the world that do not engage in these behaviors are models for Mental Health Week, gimme a break. Everybody’s got stuff, everybody makes mistakes, stumbles, learns, grows, fucks up…better to dress in a tutu than beat up your wife, fuck your children, shoot speed, bring back dinner after you’ve swallowed it, or any number of other self and other-destructive behaviors, eh? And forget the obvious behaviors like these, is anyone here going to stand up and claim that the majority of the people they have known in their lives have it all worked out? Don’t suffer depression or self-doubt, never suffer from jealousy, unreasonable anger, insecurity, what the fuck ever?
It’s a bullshit judgment to call this guy any more “troubled” than anyone else. And I still say he’s probably quite a bit less…he’s freed himself from the incredibly oppressive worry about other people’s opinions, and that puts him miles ahead of most people. And at least he’s doing what makes him happy. Most people are doing what they think they oughta be.
I’ll need a quotation from you on that, Scylla. What I said was:
That is a statement regarding your claims, not regarding mine.
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You are entitled to express any view you care to. You are entitled to express the view that Neptune is made of Velveeta cheese and that Prime Minister Chrétien is on the payroll of the FLQuistes, so please you. What you are not entitled to do is to express those views unchallenged, inasmuch as the rest of us are entitled to argue with you as strenuously as we care to that you are wrong.
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The quotations you have given bear insufficient or no supporting relationship to the view you have advanced, for reasons I’ve gone through in my response to each post you have made since I got involved in this debate. It is a little late for you to be astonished that I disagree with you.
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Just because I don’t agree with your reasoning doesn’t mean I haven’t been listening to it. I would have had to, it seems, in order to be able to respond to it.
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I have not said one single word about your own character. I have repeatedly told you in the strongest possible language how I feel about the content of your posts.
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Very well. Substituting “troubled, fucked up, and nutty” for “mentally ill” into my post, since you seem to prefer those expression, my point remains unchanged.
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If a laywoman claims it frankly to be her uneducated opinion that my phonology professor is suffering from paranoid delusions, I’m going to have to ask her for evidence; if no conclusive evidence is forthcoming, I will feel free to dismiss her claims.
You are making quite an unusual argument: that your opinion is in fact more valid because you are a layman. Nevertheless, if I think you are wrong, I will argue the case that you are wrong.
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Actually, a former roommate of mine was incarcerated for some time in a mental institution on the basis of a denunciation by laypeople. That is not relevant to the case at hand, however, since you are not responding to the statement I made. I said that for such and such a reason, a claim of mental illness is extraordinary. An extraordinary claim is extraordinary whether you are making it or anyone else is.
Every single day, laypeople make extraordinary assertions on this board in their capacity as laypeople, and every day they are asked for extraordinary proof therefor. You are no different.
Had you asserted only that Pete is weird, I would have been in perfect agreement with you. He is weird. I am weird. However, you asserted that he is insane (forgive me - “fucked up and nutty”) and you have failed to back that up with evidence befitting the extraordinary nature of the claim.
I’m sure you can see that “Pete is crazy” is an inflammatory claim. Therefore, I’m not sure why you’re surprised that I’ve challenged you so strenuously on this issue.
Stoid,
This is exactly why this is a pointless debate. None of us has enough information to make a judgement. I gave my OPINION, which I’m entitled to. You don’t agree. No problem.
I’ve said my peace before about this man and I’ve said it again. This will be the last post about it. This is the worst dead horse issue I’ve seen on here in a long, long time.
You have your opinion and I have mine. That’s that.
