Just a tidbit for the OP. Youcould set the game leading up to the Final battle.
Indeed. Lord of the Rings Online will not have any user-controlled (PC) spellcasters.
The Necromancer was Sauron. That’s all wrapped up in LotR. He hung out in Dol Guldur in southern Mirkwood for a while, as he was still rebuilding his power, and then when the White Council drove him out (Gandalf’s other business in TH) he cleared off back to Mordor, which was ready to be re-occupied by then.
Assuredly. Radagast served Saruman’s ends only by passing on a message in all innocence: that the Ringwraiths were out (true) and that Saruman wanted to see Gandalf (also true, but for a more nefarious purpose than Radagast knew). Gandalf himself said that it would have been useless “to try to win the honest Radagast over to treachery”. Of course, he would not have been as exhausted as Gandalf and might have been happy to stay East of the Sea for a few centuries.
Former member Radagast once pointed out here that at the end of the LOTR (book version; the movies were not yet), the assorted Maiar left in Middle Earth, along with any Elves and Peredhil of sufficient power to challenge one of them, have managed to beat each other into either a bloody pulp, de-fanar-ization (the Maia equivalent of discorportion), or total exhaustion.
Except one. Radagast continues his cover story of being a harmless friend to animals and birds. Until they all leave. BWA-HA-HA!
If you hang out on conservative Christian message boards at all, you’ll run into the proposition that prayer, miracles, and the like are in fact efficacious, but that magick is either (1) not real or (2) granted through the power of Satan (who as a fallen archangel retains the power he had as an unfallen one).
I bring this up because it’s important to an understanding of Tolkien’s metaphysics as regards the supernatural. Potiphar Bracegirdle the hobbit or Bregolas son of Minyatur the sailor of Dol Amroth can no more work magic simply because they got interested and looked up some lore, than Donald Rumsfeld or Aunt Tessie Schwartzfuss could in reality Earth 2006. Elves have certain powers that appear magic to mortals that are inherent parts of their nature – just like human boys, unlike juvenile male rhinoceroses, have the ability to climb trees. Maiar have significantly greater power – they are, after all, angels in the strict sense, supernatural spirit entities serving The One who chose to enter into Arda when it was created – but their power, though it may be concentrated in exterior objects, is inherent in who they are, not in what they learn (though being aware through lore of how to do something they have the power to do seems important).
In short, while the LOTR-iverse is highly magical, there is, effectively, no magic in the strict sense in it.
But didn’t the Numenorian sword that Merry used to stab the Witch King have some runes engraved on it or something that partly was the reason behind the Witch-King’s death? I think this is geeky Tolkien debate #3, actually.
Yes, and the Dwarves carved magic Runes.
Magic may be external, after all.
I got the impression that the making of weapons, especially swords, was partly “magical” – prayer and such went into them from the weaponsmiths who made them that they would accomplish the ends for which they were made. (In this case, a loyal Arthedain smith wanting his blade to be used to smite Angmar, the realm of the Witch-King back when he was purely human.)
But the key point, of course, was that the prophecy was that “the Witch-King of Angmar can be slain by no man” – and it was a woman – Eowyn – and a hobbit – Meriadoc – who finally brought him down.
(There are a ton of these twisted-result prophecies in real life, too. One of the English Kings was heartened in battle by the knowledge it had been prophesied that “he would die in Jerusalem” – which of course was the object of Crusades, and at the time securely held by the Turks. So he fought valiantly and even a touch foolhardily in the secure knowledge that he would not be killed before he came to Jerusalem. Then he was severely wounded and taken into a nearby castle to be tended. And found out that the name of the particular chamber in which he was placed was the Jerusalem Chamber. And promptly died.)
When trying to construct a gaming world from a novel, especially as rich a world as Middle-Earth. The Ref needs to take what liberties he can.
Take the fact that Gandalf and company found some very powerful Gondolin blades in a troll’s lair and the Barrow Downs appears to have contained many magic items. Run with the concept of there already being black sorcerers from the Black Numenoreans. Except the apparent Shamanism of the Pukel-Men and develop Druids from them or Radagast training humans and or elves.
Use the concept of the Blue Wizards training humans in the East in Magic and Illusion and introduce what pieces of magic you wish that way.
As far as magic items, accept that Elves, Dwarves, Dunedain, and other have created what to normal humans would be magic items.
Take what liberties you can without breaking the world of Middle-Earth too much and you can craft a fun and exciting world where many of the players are already well versed in the history and geography of the land.
Aye, an I take pride in my geekiness, it is a large part of who I am and my love of Middle-Earth is the center of my geekiness.
As the other party to that conversation, I confess that I take some small pride in my role in Official Doper Moment #7564.
Jim
Polycarp , I’m sorry to nitpick but. . .
The chief Ringwraith had been a Nazgul for well over a thousand years at the time that Angmar was founded (perhaps even two thousand years, don’t have LOTR handy right now). I doubt he was entirely human by that point.
Henry IV of England is the king you mentioned. He didn’t die from battle wounds, rather a disfiguring disease that took several years to kill him. We don’t know what the disease was. The Jerusalem chamber story sounds like fiction, although that is where Henry died.
Yes, and the Dwarves carved magic Runes.
Magic may be external, after all.
It seems like much of the magic in Middle-Earth may be imbued into an item through close association with magical creatures rather than being deliberately granted or placed on an item. This is certainly the case with items like elven cloaks and rope. They aren’t “enchanted” to perform certain tricks, but they contain the elvishness of their creators. Thus their unbearable nature for evil creatures like Gollum. Also, the blade Merry wielded was antagonistic to the Witch King. It was the blade of the Witch Kings old enemy and as such it longed for vengeance in an elemental way.
Likewise, Aragorns sword Narsil is “magic” (debatable) due more to it’s association with kings than any kind of enchantment. It is a Kings blade, and therefore superior to ordinary weapons.
But as others have pointed out, there are cases of “spells” and “enchantments” scattered through the Tolkien universe.
I’m just going to chime in and note that Galadriel’s opinion about the three elven rings is not universally shared, as she herself points out when talking about the subject with Frodo at the mirror. Some believe that the rings would be freed of their domination, and the elves would be able to work magic with them again.
The fact that the three are taken from Middle-Earth by their bearers at the end of the story would seem to indicate Galadriel was closer to accurate; surely they would have stayed and help the land recover after the unmaking of the One Ring otherwise.
Also, someone asked about how the Three could have been affected by the One, when Sauron didn’t have a hand in making them. While it is true he never touched them, the craft Celebrimbor used to make them was taught to him by Sauron. Presumably, Sauron had a back-door built into the rings; when he made the One Ring, he simply was hacking in through his previously unknown back door.
I cannot remember: why would the Nine not be wearing rings? If the rings weren’t needed, Sauron could have just handed them out again and made an ever increasing population of wraiths. Do the books themselves say what happened? Or is it something Tolkein talks about in the other reported writings?

Likewise, Aragorns sword Narsil is “magic” (debatable) due more to it’s association with kings than any kind of enchantment. It is a Kings blade, and therefore superior to ordinary weapons.
I think you’re forgeting the fact that the blade blazed with a white fire, much like Stings blue flame when near orcs. I’ve seen alot of blades, and not one ever glowed anything without magic.

I think you’re forgeting the fact that the blade blazed with a white fire, much like Stings blue flame when near orcs. I’ve seen alot of blades, and not one ever glowed anything without magic.
So…you’ve been around glowing magic blades?

So…you’ve been around glowing magic blades?
I really can’t comment on that issue at this time.
THIS PRESS CONFRENCE IS OVER!! :mad: :eek:

I cannot remember: why would the Nine not be wearing rings? If the rings weren’t needed, Sauron could have just handed them out again and made an ever increasing population of wraiths. Do the books themselves say what happened? Or is it something Tolkein talks about in the other reported writings?
As I recall and conjecture:
At first, they did wear them often, and then they had to wear them as the curse of the ring grew on them. After centuries of corruption, when their human bodies were long gone, their undead spirit was tied to the rings. They were no longer fully corporal at this point. The Rings could be kept safe elsewhere. If Dragon fire could consume Dwarven Rings then both Dragon Fie and Elven Forges would be able to destroy the ring. It would be prudent to keep the rings very safe.
The destruction of the nine and their horses at the Fords gives fairly good proof they were not wearing the rings at the time.
Jim

I cannot remember: why would the Nine not be wearing rings? If the rings weren’t needed, Sauron could have just handed them out again and made an ever increasing population of wraiths. Do the books themselves say what happened? Or is it something Tolkein talks about in the other reported writings?
The debate hinges on one line in LOTR: when accounting for all the rings of power, Gandalf says “the Nine he has gathered to himself.” Is this meant metaphorically (the Nazgul are slaves to Sauron’s will) or literally (the rings are in the Black Jewelry Box of Barad-Dur (with a Lidless Eye engraved on the lid, no doubt)).
Take what liberties you can without breaking the world of Middle-Earth too much and you can craft a fun and exciting world where many of the players are already well versed in the history and geography of the land.
Oh, I’ve taken liberties. Maybe too much liberty…
Since you enjoyed my narration of the Choice of Earendil (which I put up on another thread here on the SDMB), here and here are two other examples I once posted on USENET (in rec.arts.books.tolkien). In a nutshell, extensive research on my part has proven that both Saruman and Smeagol have been the victims of some massive smear campaigns.
I take pride in my geekiness, it is a large part of who I am and my love of Middle-Earth is the center of my geekiness.
Have you seen this parody of the game characters from the video game Summoner playing D&D?
[QUOTE=robardin]
In a nutshell, extensive research on my part has proven that both Saruman and Smeagol have been the victims of some massive smear campaigns.
[QUOTE]
Now this I have to hear. How could you prove that Saruman who betrayed all the goodly races of middle earth to get his hands on the one ring got Jobbed?

The debate hinges on one line in LOTR: when accounting for all the rings of power, Gandalf says “the Nine he has gathered to himself.” Is this meant metaphorically (the Nazgul are slaves to Sauron’s will) or literally (the rings are in the Black Jewelry Box of Barad-Dur (with a Lidless Eye engraved on the lid, no doubt)).
I always kinda pictured Sauron putting all of them on a chain, and then fingering them like a rosary.
Someone once pointed out that he had nine fingers left (one being missing on his Black Hand, as Gollum noticed), so maybe he just wore them all on his hands. But where was he planning on wearing his One Ring, then, when he got it back? (…DON’T ANSWER THAT!!)