This thread is inspired by the girl discussed in this thread.
She’s clearly an extremely troubled kid, way beyond the normal teen angst/rebellion thing. My question to you, Dopers, is…what will happen with her and other kids like her? Have you known kids who were acting out this strongly, who grew up to be “normal” people? Or maybe some who just continued on a destructive cycle?
Were you like that? How did you turn yourself around, from being on a bad path to being the fine, upstanding citizen that I’m sure you are today?
I know that the assumption most people have about a kid who’s clearly already messed up is that they’ll just continue on and never make anything of themselves. A lot of times that’s true, but not always. I’d like anecdotes, if you have 'em, from both sides of the experience.
(Sorry if I did something wrong - this is my first thread I’ve created - please be gentle! )
I wasn’t a severely messed up kid, but I had problems. I did drink almost 3-4 days a week in high school, which isn’t too bad, but I also smoked a lot of pot the last two years of school. I also had my license suspended several times when I was in school. I didn’t live at my parent’s house for a lot of the time because I would fight with them, so I bounced from friends houses to sleeping in my car, or staying on the cot at work (when I was a lifeguard and my boss didn’t care at all).
The thing that made me decide to come clean most, or that had an influence, was the summer after my senior year of high school. I got scammed - money was taken from my bank account illegally and I owed a lot of money back to the bank - so I worked a manual labor job, 12 hours a day, for nothing. The money went to pay back the bank for the money I owed, then I just saved everything else once that was paid back. Then my wife and I got together.
Now I am a senior in college - working on my BA. I’m married, having a kid, and work 40 hours a week at a decent job where I am possibly looking at raise/promotion in a short time. The truth is, after my first month of college, I was clean (well, I drank, but not half as much). I started here in Winter of 2005 and am now 12 classes from graduation. I would be done sooner but I can only take 2-3 classes this summer.
My wife also made a huge difference in my life though. She basically said that she didn’t want to be around pot, and that the idea of having a family meant no more pot at all. I considered the options and since I had already basically stopped smoking it due to money issues, decided to give it up completely. Again, I wasn’t the worst kid in high school, but I was a rather wild teenager.
A portrait of me as a teen:
Used drugs, the harder, the better. Sold dope – mostly LSD (best profit, least risk). My drug of choice was sex – just ask any of my male friends. No need to run away, my parents were of the “as long as I don’t have to pick her up from the PD, who cares what she’s doing” variety. I believe the final count of days missed my senior year was closer to half the total in the school year than otherwise and the days I was actually at school, I would say I was high at least half of them, the other half probably drunk. I remember snorting coke off my desk in English class more than once.
While I didn’t go on to be president or anything like that, I am currently a mother of two pretty well-adjusted kids, married to a National Guardsman and working for a gift wrap distributor. I have held positions as Sr VP in charge of Administration (left it because my boss was a literal psychopath – he threw phones across the office at least every other day)and General Manager of a trucking company (quit because the owners wouldn’t pay for shit and there were no benefits, although I was expected to work over 50 hours/week). I guess I turned out ok. I still do not consider myself social at all, but I am not in jail – never have been, in fact.
My brother was a closer match to the girl in that thread (run-away history, in and out of juvie/jail, etc), but he has mellowed out over the years. So long as he stays away from certain people/things (he knows who and what those are, too) – he stays out of jail. He isn’t exactly a stand-up person, but he’s not a serial killer.
ETA – I got my degree in Computers after my second child was born – all on scholarships. Even with the drugs I was selling and doing in High School, I graduated with a 3.9 GPA. I graduated Summa Cum Laude from college. And my daughter has aspirations of a law degree. Donno if that means anything…
I drank a lot in high school and my young adult years. Did drugs, risky sex, drinking and driving, kicked off my varsity team, almost lost a job due to attendance problems, etc.
What saved me was a relationship with a really stable partner who was completing grad school. It eventually led to my own college and grad school attendance.
Plus, in my mid-20s I developed a pretty acute allergy to alcohol. Many of my family members are alcoholics, so this was a saving grace.
I was a troubled kid, much like that girl. Drinking, running away, dabbled in drugs, dropped out of high school. I fought with my parents constantly.
It was a slow transition for me, instead of some great epiphany. I slowly stopped hanging out with the kids that I used to, and started hanging out with kids that were more responsible, interested in college, all that stuff. So I started going to college, stopped doing drugs, got a job, and moved out of my parents’ house.
I’m still far from perfect and make mistakes a lot, but I guess at some point I just realized, hey, I’m a smart kid, do I want to just sit on my ass for the rest of my life? Of course, my mistakes held me back for a while, and I’m much further behind in school than I intended. But I have my own place, can support myself, and know where I want to go.
For me, at least, I know a lot of my problems stemmed from my depression, which is what I am trying to tackle now so as not to repeat my past mistakes. The girl in that thread sounds like she could be acting out because of depression, or grief from her father’s death. It happens to a lot of people, but a lot are able to grow out of it and move past it. You just have to realize at some point that what you’re doing isn’t healthy.
A very good friend of mine I used to work with had a younger sister who I met when she was 14 or so. Her parents were long since divorced, and she was having too many conflicts with her mother whom she was living with so she went to live with her older sister, my friend. Younger Sis was extremely bright and talented (art, drawing) as well as beautiful. When I first met her she was strong-willed but not someone you would call a problem child.
Over the next few years though Younger Sis spiraled into a morass of drug abuse and destructive relationships with abusive boyfriends. She was dead at 19, it was either accidental overdose or suicide, I never got the exact story.
One thing I wanted to add- I had a great support system after I stopped hanging out with the losers I used to. My best friend’s mom is the sweetest woman alive, and I ended up living at her house for a while (even after my friend moved to NY, I still lived with her parents). Picture a little Irish woman with bright blue eyes and long blonde hair. She acted like the mother hen to all the troubled kids we hung out with. The house was always packed, and she was always there to listen and give advice if we asked. She never lectured (except when we smoked in the house :o ) and was like my adoptive mom. Everyone loves her. For Mother’s Day, she was out of town visiting relatives, and we had like 2 dozen kids over that weekend to clean up the backyard and back porch as a present for her, just to give you an idea.
Actually, I’d say she was a huge influence on me, and probably a good chunk of the reason I am the way I am today. I never thought about that before. Thanks, Mary.
My middle sister had problems; the first one I recall was when at 14, she intentionally got pregnant by a 28-year-old married man. She got into drugs, prostitution, crime, and later had 3 kids by that same married guy. She actually whored out her own daughter when the girl was a teenager, I hear, and made her youngest son drop out of high school to go to work to support her. Now she’s a grandmother of 3-5 (some paternity is uncertain), and two of her 20-something kids still live with her. While she swears she’s clean, she sure doesn’t sound like it when she calls me asking for money. I still wouldn’t leave my purse unattended around her, to say the least.
My other three sisters and I had our teen moments and episodes, but we all turned out relatively ok. All professional, three employed (I’m a stay-at-home mom), and two of us college graduates. That middle one is just… messed up. I don’t think she’ll ever change.
I’m very glad to read the stories of Dopers who were formerly “problem children” and are now leading healthy lives. However, we have a very selective population here. The people who were problem children and grew into problem adults - if they grew up at all - aren’t going to manage to get regular access to the Internet, let alone post on one of the most literate message boards available. The ratio we’re seeing here is skewed towards the successes.
As far as the kids go, I think there are some unfortunates who, because of lousy genetics, poor fetal environment, or really crappy infancy and childhood, are broken as broken gets. Run a brain scan on them and see what shape their neocortex and frontal lobes are in. I’ll bet between the damage they’ve done to themselves through drugs and risk-seeking behavior and the poor start they had, they have perhaps 50-75% of the capacity that they might otherwise have had.
The ones who haven’t sustained that kind of damage, who have the mental resources to figure out their own drives and behaviors and from there, predict the consequences, those are the ones who stand the best chance. Sometimes, it’s all the environment. Put the kid in a different environment with caring adults, and they’ll pull a 180 that’ll knock your socks off. Sometimes, rarely, the kid will be the one to change the environment, all on their own. I suspect they are the ones who can survive a zombie apocalypse with a pack of gum and a couple of toothpicks.
I think that is absolutely true - but it gives us a more uplifting feeling, right? (us as in those that are reading it hoping the problem children they know will “straighten up and fly right”)
I will admit to lurking at the time of my drinking/drug/wild sex phase, but mostly while at school (my school never understood that blocking Yahoo Mail and not message boards wasn’t the smartest idea) or at friends houses. Of course, it took my sobering up to actually subscribe.
I’ll agree that it is probably skewed towards the successes here on the SDMB, but I was thinking about all the troubled kids that I know that had similar experiences to mine. After switching schools, I stopped hanging out with the kids that got me into the drinking and drugs and skipping school in the first place, and made new friends. Not that they didn’t drink, do drugs, or skip school, but they were, as a whole, a much more motivated bunch. We still goofed off, got into fights, and were generally holy terrors, but something was different.
My previous friends had all been hopeless. This was the best it was ever gonna get, so screw it, why bother? These new friends, even though many were still “problem kids,” had something else- namely, the support of the wonderful woman I mentioned in my previous post. Like I said, she offered a place to stay and a shoulder to cry on. I have no idea how much time, energy, and money she spent on us kids in addition to the 3 she already had, but it was a lot. But luckily, all but one of us managed to pull ourselves out of our downward spiral. Now all of us have jobs, most are in college, some are in trade schools, a few got married and had kids.
The one that didn’t make it, well, we don’t know what happened to her. She used to be one of my best friends. She got into heroin, and we stopped hanging out. She kept telling us she was clean, but we could tell she wasn’t. It’s so sad, her mom is an alcoholic, and her dad died of a heroin overdose. We lost touch, and last we heard of her, she was in the paper in 2005. She was 8 months pregnant, had been arrested on drug charges, sentenced to probation, and arrested for violating her probation. The judge ordered house arrest and biweekly drug tests so she wouldn’t have to have the baby in jail. That’s all I know. Periodically we’ll check the county sherriff’s website to see if she’s been arrested, but she could be dead for all I know. Luckily, her younger brother was adopted by her ex-boyfriend’s parents, and he’s turned out great. But every time I see a junkie at a bus stop when I’m driving down the road, I double check to see if it’s her.
I agree that some “problem kids” don’t turn into really successful adults and that the responses here are skewed. The central reason I turned out okay is that I left the environment I grew up in, which was toxic. Of my five siblings, all of whom still live in the same place, one has turned out spectacular, one is borderline okay, and the other three are troubled (alcohol and drug abuse; depression and alcoholism).
Of my high school milieu (class of '85!) very few of the kids who engaged in the same behaviors I did have turned into “good” adults. Most are alcoholics with unstable lives and low-paying jobs – kind of eternal 18-year olds. It’s weird when I go back home to visit, because I want to go to a nice dinner and chat, and the old gang wants to buy a suitcase of beer and get drunk while listening to Culture Club and Heart and playing Spin the Bottle. Sheesh! I’m 40, guys!
By my self-evaluation I was a good kid, but it depends what your standards are. I was a sexually active lesbian teen. I drank a small but still illegal amount of alcohol, and smoked a very small but illegal amount of pot. I didn’t particularly do homework, and I cut high school a reasonable amount. However, I also had a B average in a good high school and graduated in 3 years. When I snuck out at night, I always left a note. My friends and I all intended to go to college, and did so.
I now have a doctorate, a committed partnership, and a good job. I was never very interested in substances and for many, many years have only used alcohol, in amounts between “abstinent” and “1-2 times a week.” If still being a lesbian is a bad outcome by someone’s standards, then my teen years were predictive.
First of all, everyone has “problems”. Lots of kids drink excessively, have casual sex and experiment with drugs. Many of them grow up to be very successful, but they also continue to drink excessively, have casual sex and experiment with drugs. Others calm down and just live normal lives.
A lot of it also depends on their financial situation. A problem kid from an affluent family can still find themselves going off to college and getting a decent job. A poor kid might not.
I thought I was all bad, and so did my father, but I was so tame it’s hilarious. Yeah, I dressed in goth, smoked pot and I fucked some people, but that wasn’t until I was 16, and I didn’t even drink alcohol or miss my curfew.
Hamish had problems as a child too, but of the sort that involve the parents being (severely) fucked up, rather than the kid. After being chased out of his home and living in extreme poverty for a number of years, he’s gainfully employed and has just completed a master’s degree.
I was a really good teenager. I didn’t drink in high school, smoked one cigarette in all that time, etc.
Then I went away to college, and I went crazy. I was going to a high-pressure all women’s school on the East Coast. I was involved the first year, but then I started hanging out with the “townies” and drank lots. Did really hard drugs. I had such a case of hubris…like I was too smart for the bad to happen to me.
I went through a couple of years of hell, but I have great parents who knew when to help and when to say, “You go do that. You can visit, but we don’t want you around here until you’re cleaned up.” (I had the best “getting kicked out of the house” experience ever. Totally reasonable and rational.)
Now I do no drugs other than alcohol, nicotine and caffeine. I am respected at my job and getting good grades at school.
My sister was much crazier in some ways - she even ran away from home for a while, while doing meth. She’s now got her GED and is working for her local school district as a janitor. It’s a permanent job, with benefits and possibility for advancement as soon as she gets her boiler certification.
I think that there’s a lot to be said for living with a family that always loves you and provides a united front. My parents have been married for 32 years, and while I realize that children of divorced parents grow up to be productive all the time, I think in my/our situation it would have been much worse if there had been a hesitant step-parent involved. As it was, Mom and Dad worked together to shift the burden off each other, and to educate themselves about our problems. To act, rather than react, and to make reasonable rules early on which helped us to be able to go back to them for help when we were ready. My sister is at Mom’s house several days a week these days, and we all talk on the phone a lot.
Absolutely. That’s why I asked for stories of people who knew kids who hadn’t pulled out of it, as well as from those who had.
My li’l brother is going through some crap right now - what I’d consider high-end of normal teenager behavior (he’s 18). Dropping out of HS, never had a job, getting kicked out of the house repeatedly, suicidal gestures, stuff like that. No drug problem as far as we know, that’s a blessing, and he hasn’t gotten anyone pregnant that we know of either. The kid just seems to have no desire nor motivation to do anything but play video games and watch anime. I’m just trying to figure out what the odds are that he’ll actually grow up to be a useful and productive member of society…
If the global situation wasn’t what it is right now, I think I’d be encouraging him to go into the military. As much as I hate the idea, the discipline and achievement he’d get in the service is exactly what he needs to learn.
I was a pretty boring teen, but I’d have been happy doing nothing but playing video games and watching anime. Hell, I’d still be happy just playing video games and watching anime, but somehow I became a physician anyway.
Of course, the extensor tendonitis I’ve developed in my right thumb since we had the twins has made pushing the buttons on a standard game controller extremely painful, so that activity’s off the table for the foreseeable future anyway… :mad:
My rebellion took place in the mid fifties and it was pretty messy, but before drugs were an issue. I joined the Navy at 17, although I still had some of the rebel in me and probably came close to getting booted out in my first year. I finally saw the light, with the stern guidance of several savvy petty officers, and had a successful career, retiring in the late 70’s as a Chief Petty Officer.
Actually, no. I’m rooting for the failure of most of the problem children I know. It validates my understanding of the universe when the people that are on the wrong track end up at the wrong station. Otherwise, I might as well take their train.
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