Again, I think this myth has been sufficiently dispelled.
While quite pithy, that has nothing to do with the core of this issue which is, for the umpteenth time, SOME PEOPLE JUST DON’T LIKE SOME FOODS.
Good on you. I don’t feel any desire or obligation whatsoever to “train” myself to like something. What are you trying to prove? Why are you trying to prove it? And to whom?
Again, already covered. Doesn’t matter how hard your parents try to “expose” you to whatever. If you truly have an aversion to certain things, all it’s going to do is piss you off.
I’ve been following this post and I wanted to share an extreme story from my own life demonstrating the acceptance of offered food that one does not find appealing.
A few years ago, I was working in Afghanistan on a foreign aid project. My predessessor on this project had alienated a very important partner from the government of Afghanistan. Without his cooperation, we were not going to acheive our goals.
So I shmoozed the guy. I went to his office and had tea with him and gave him a pen with my organization’s name on it, etc. He started to come around and was warming up to our project. He invited me to visit his family in a village outside of Kabul. I went because it would have been very rude not to go.
While we were there, he bragged how his town makes the best buttermilk (I forget the word for it in Dari, but it was buttermilk) in the world. We stop off to have a glass. The guy selling it is standing on the side of the road with a big pot of buttermilk and a ladle on the side of the road. My host orders a glass, the guy pours a ladle full into a glass and hands it to him. When my host finished it, the guy selling the buttermilk takes the same glass, swishes it around in some murky water and pours me a glass.
Now, I knew I was about to get really really sick. But I drank it and I pretended it was awesome. It is what adults do. They sometimes taste something they don’t like and praise it and then claim to be full so they cant’ have seconds.
Adults sometimes try something they don’t like to be a good guest. Adults also understand if someone can’t eat something because the guest keeps kosher, or is a vegetarian, or is allergic.
If I can spend two days throwing up in a sweaty Kabul hotel, so I didn’t offend a government minister/warlord, you can take a bight out of your neighbor’s lasagna and play along. It is what adults do.
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I don’t know if this counts as picky, but there are a few classes of foods that I refuse to eat (no excuse, just hate them).
The important part is that by “refuse” I mean discreetly. I skip the fish soup and fill my plate with the meat and vegetable courses. I eat vigorously - not “picking at it” - but managing to avoid most of the tomato and pepper bits in the salad. This may be just because of the nature of my prejudices, but I can be picky without making a spectacle of myself.
And if there’s no graceful way out of the situation, I will put on my winningest smile, eat as much as is necessary to pretend I’ve had some, praise it effusively, and vomit later.
I have just one food prejudice that people seem not to object to, which is that I do not drink alcohol. I guess enough people do it for serious reasons (health, religion, recovering alcoholic, etc.) that I can get away with just not liking the taste.
Hmmm… so did mine - except it didn’t rub off. In those threads that ask “what foods did you not try until you were an adult” I tend to think “had that, had that, had that, had that, lived to tell about that, had that, wow that was disgusting, had that, …” And I did have to eat a full serving of whatever the food was.
I just didn’t like a lot of it.
And I can choke down a few bites of pretty much anything, even foods I hate - and I will do that if my neighbor or friend serves them to me. But I am not going to pay money for the experience of tasting something that I find unpleasant. How bizarre that you would. That makes absolutely no sense to me - do you pay some one to beat you with sticks, too? (unless you’re a masochist, in which case do you pay someone not to beat you with sticks?)
BTW, I only eat homemade, baked macaroni and cheese. Kraft isn’t on my list. And tater tots are a vegetable.
Those that don’t eat whole classes of food ARE annoying
Having worked for 3 years with a Muslem (sp?), and only being able to eat halal when we lunched, this does BUG me (not intensly but in a vaguely irritating way), mostly because halal isn’t as nice as other foods on offer
If you don’t eat the food that your host supplies you are being a bad guest (again I mean whole meals, not one or two ingredients or a side dish)
Medical problems aside, picky eating is psychological, this I am SURE of (having eaten, and enjoyed, rabbit, rat and frog when I didn’t know what they were, and prior to this being “put off” by the thought)
Great thread. Real quick: I was a picky eater as a child, the only symptoms still lingering are I won’t eat mushrooms or any fungus in any way – whole or as an ingredient – and I avoid asparagus, though it’s fine as a minor ingredient. That’s the list, so I trust I’m not included in the buzzkill group of picky eaters. Okay, onto my points…
I would gladly opt for the food pill and not eat ever again. I would also gladly opt for a sleep pill, and also a shower pill. (Hot water irritates my skin; luke-warm showers are no joy, and even those are trivially irritating.) Pity me for not deriving my joy in life from these mundane tasks; to me eating and sleeping are akin to shaving. I enjoy having shaved, just as I enjoy having just finished eating or showering, but during the act itself I’m usually thinking “holy fuck this is a huge waste of time.”
I do enjoy cooking, though, and enjoy spending my time cooking. Just not eating; go figure. I am fully aware of the mild annoyance (I feel) in cooking food and not having someone want it. Of course I consider that a personal problem of mine. You guys seem to feel some sort of entitlement to have others eat what you want them to eat. Yes, they didn’t allow me to express my affection for them when they turned down what I cooked. Not every partner shares my sex fetishes, either. I consider expecting someone to eat my food akin to expecting my partner to satisfy me sexually even when they’re not in the mood. IOW, I think it’s irrationally selfish.
I am still a picky eater, though not due to selection. (I’ve eaten friggin’ jellyfish, and even gone back for more after I found out what the gristly monstrosity actually was. Mostly from morbid fascination.)
No, I’m a picky eater because I have what I’ll call a nervous stomach. My appetite is extremely sensitive to any kind of stress. Eating around other people qualifies as stress, mostly because of the attitudes expressed in this thread. When I lose my appetite, choking down food has an even chance of coming right back up.
Which is more rude: refusing all food or puking it back up? Okay, it would be nigh-inconcievable that I’d actually puke, but you know that look someone gets when they become nauseous with a mouth full of food? The endless chewing, the face sweats, the grimace? Doesn’t matter how much I like the food; could be my favorite dish. Is that really the more polite approach for me to take, or would it be better to just tell you I lost my appetite?
Obviously, I am not a fat person. I can’t help wondering about the weight of those who derive so much joy from food, or who consider refusing food to be a huge social gaffe. If a host is overweight, and they can’t get over the fact that I’m not hungry, well I guess we both feel superior to each other, now don’t we?
In the long run, with the obesity epidemic we’re having, I think my relationship with food is healthier than the majority of people in this country. So you’ll forgive me if I roll my eyes at people who say “eating gives me such joy.” Looking in the mirror, trying on clothes, going to the beach, getting naked for the first time with a new person…none of these situations cause me to feel self-conscious from body image issues. I’ll take “lack of joy from eating” as an even trade for the not hating my body. As an added bonus, I’ll never have to suffer the agony of weightloss plans. (Dieting seems like it sucks largely because it’s depriving one of life’s great joys. How ideal not have that joy to be deprived of in the first place, no?)
One final thought; I’ve known hunger before. Not being hungry, but actual hunger. I’d’ve eaten anything, and so would all you picky eaters. As much as I hate the idea of fungus, were I to be starving, I’d gladly wrap up mushrooms in a slice of moldy bread and eat it with a smile.
P.S: Considering my alias, imagine my quandry when only the organic alternative was available. I think choking it down all those times (oh so long ago) solidified my now hardline stance against fungus.
I may not be able to get back to this thread for a couple of days (if it continues that long), so some final thoughts.
Picking the example of “one place that keeps a kosher kitchen” is not a good example for NYC, because there are plenty of choices (even for Chinese food) for kosher kitchens. A better example would be, “I only like the latkes at this restaurant, and I’m not interested in going anywhere else.” It’s not the kosher aspect; it’s the total unwillingness to even try one’s favorite type of food in a different location that matters here.
Here’s the deal. Mutual friend/colleague comes into town, we work all day and then want to go out afterward. Jeff likes to leave for home no later than 8:30 pm, because he’s an early riser and has a bit of a trip to get home; fine by me, I can understand those things no problem. But that basically leaves the hours between 5:30 and 8:30 pm to socialize, and quite frankly, people are hungry at that point. That’s why food is a natural part of the socializing.
Please note that we have never failed to accommodate Jeff in the least, but damn it gets dull. And I really don’t know what will happen when this one restaurant closes. I’d like for him to keep coming out with us, but I’m don’t expect him to sit there sipping water while we eat what we like and he’s undoubtedly hungry. That IMHO would be rude of us, but it sounds to me like you would consider this a hang-up on our part. That perspective I guess I won’t ever understand.
More often than you might think. Miller says to just consider them assholes; so be it, then. Just as people who try to force you into eating something you don’t want would be, in my book.
No, I would not consider you an asshat if you declined politely. If I invited you over not knowing your preferences and discovered that nothing I could offer you was suitable, I would be a bit disappointed and embarrassed at not being able to make you comfortable.
OTOH, if I had no warning of your preferences, and you by your facial expressions express dissatisfaction with the offerings despite assurances that you’re fine, really (and this has happened to me), I’m not going to be happy, and would definitely think twice about inviting you over again, because the behavior is rude.
However, if I knew your preferences, and yet prepared nothing that you would be happy to eat, then I would be the asshat, not you.
I hope that’s clearer now.
Some of you people who describe yourselves as picky, I wouldn’t even include in the classification, because it sounds to me like you eat a wide enough number of things to make accommodation pretty simple. To me, you’re getting your backs up over stuff about descriptions that aren’t even being applied to you in this thread.
By the way, the only reason I brought India into this is because Miller essentially accused acsenray of projecting family practices inappropriately across an entire country. I’m fully aware that we don’t live in India (or Germany, or Italy, or wherever), but wanted to provide a supporting anecdote that it isn’t all just in acsenray’s head.
I’ll make a WAG here and say that some of us in this thread who see a strong link between food and socialization are no more than third-generation Americans, with parents or grandparents from cultures where a great deal of importance is placed on food as a social bond. (I myself am first generation.) When those folks came to the U.S., they didn’t immediately abandon their culture, but instead have passed it on to the kids and grandkids, so the influence lingers. For those of you whose families have been here for, say, over a hundred years now, I can see how you probably wouldn’t keep any “old” traditions, and instead keep to purely American values like individualism now. It’s not a bad thing, it’s just a different perspective.
What an insightful comment. :rolleyes: Talk about people projecting an air of superiority for bullshit reasons.
This whole thread has been very interesting. We all have to eat, yet our attitudes to eating are so different.
If someone comes to my home for dinner there are two acceptable responses a) Thank you for a lovely dinner b) I’m sorry but I am allergic to that (why the fuck didn’t you tell me before!!). “I don’t LIKE that” doesn’t even come into the equation. How rude can you be?
When I was a child my Nana made ‘Steak and Kidney Pud’ (because it was my dad’s favourite) EVERY TIME WE WENT FOR DINNER. I loathe offal, any and all offal, but on the way to Nana’s house my father would give the same speech “You WILL eat everything on your plate and YOU will THANK your your Grndmother for the DELICIOUS dinner”. So we did. I remember swallowing hunks of kidney whole so I didn’t have to chew them.
I would NEVER eat kidney voluntarily now. NEITHER would I refuse to eat ANYTHING offered to me by someone in their home (including kidney)
Other then my anti-offal thing I wasn’t a fussy kid but my child was. I had a few simple rules;
a) If someone offers you a meal you MUST eat it! Your ick factor is NEVER worth being rude to someone else.
b) Nothing is “YUCK” until you have had three mouthfuls. Try it you might like it!
c) If something is “YUCK” at someone elses house…TOUGH SHIT!!! Manners mean you eat it anyway!
My fussy child declined most things (IN my house) until he was about 7 yrs old BUT never said NO in anyone elses home. He now eats pretty much anything but raw tomato.
IF there is NO reason other then allergy (which seems to be the current crutch) or rudeness to decline eating something a host offers you. Frankly I don’t care if my child GAGS on a raw tomato, if we are at a friends place and it is on the menu, he either has to conceal the fact that he isn’t eating it or SHUT UP. Whingeing in someone elses home is unacceptable.
I feel sorry for picky eaters but rudeness is always rude…Your poor offended texture/taste preferences make you RUDE! In a resturant, you are golden! Choose what you want. Eat what makes you happy!
If you are in someones home? If it won’t kill you (or break your religious beliefs) then fucking suck it up! Respect your host!
In my experience, it’s very much considered rude not to eat anything a host offers you not only in India, but also in the US.
If person A goes to person B’s home for dinner, and person A doesn’t eat the majority of the food, that’s not considered rude? 'round here it is. I’m not saying that you pass on the side of beef hearts and kidney surprise, but eat the main dish, salad, and dessert; I’m talking refusing to eat anything, or maybe the salad but nothing else. And not because of an allergy or religious restrictions, but simply because the person is so picky that most of a standard American dinner is not to their taste.
Heck, like I mentioned before, I’m expected to go to M-i-L’s house about once a month and eat bland, heavy food. Do I like it? Hell no. Mr. Athena and I usually complain to each other before we go. But we both go, and we both eat, and we both compliment her on her cooking.
Another extreme example I just remembered: my ex and I once visited his grandmother at her home. She’s a southern woman, quite old at the time, and very prim and proper. When we arrived, she offered us coffee. It was instant - something I don’t normally drink - but I said “fine” because she was an elderly relative, and I wasn’t about to disrespect her. When she brought the coffee to me, there was a tiny dead ant floating in it. <gulp>. What do I do? I’d just met the woman for the first time, and she was very much the type to be mortified if I were to point this out. I thought about all the dead bugs I’d eaten on various camping trips, held my breath, and tried to drink around the ant.
I still think I did the right thing. It’d been bad had I made a fuss.
And let me say for the umpteenth time, that if that’s all it is, then it’s not a problem. You seem to be reading a lot more into what I’m saying that is what there. I truly don’t care what the dietary choices are of all my acquaintances. The point I’m trying to make is limited and it addresses only the “Picky Eater” as described in the first few posts of this thread, not the person who just doesn’t like something, which, as I’ve said repeatedly is everyone. Everyone doesn’t like something and nobody’s going to suffer major trauma when those things are refused.
And believe me, I know about dieting. (Although any diet that bars some category of food entirely is probably scientifically suspect, that’s not the point.) Let me stress again, the subject here is of someone who refuses all (or all but a very limited range) of foods for no other reason than he or she doesn’t like it. Even strict dieters can eat something, and most dieters in my experience don’t go about their business in such a way that their social circles have to go out of their way to ensure that the menu fits that one person’s strictures.
Why so? And how is this any of your business? Why would you possibly care?
This has been an interesting thread, but why people care what others like or dislike is absolutly beyond me.
For the record, I cannot tolerate any type of seafood. Fish, lobster, shrimp whatever. My wife loves it and I will cook it for her (although the smell of it sometimes puts me off my own meal).
I wish this wasn’t the case, I would like to like it. I’ve tried it again and again. Nope, no thanks still tastes absolutely horrible to me.
::: Sigh:::
Go back and read the post just above yours.
Real life example , there are 10 guys in my department. We are spread all over North America. We get together for meetings once or twice a year.
Naturally after work many of us go out to dinner together to swap war stories, tell tall tales, unwind and have a great time.
So this one member of our department was a world class picky eater. (WCPE)
So about 6 of us decide to go to dinner including WCPE the conversation goes like this:
First guy: how about XYZ steakhouse? (excellent place)
WCPE: NO I don’t like it
Second guy: What about (names a great chineese place)
WCPE: NO I don’t like it
Third guy: Well there is the (great diner down the street)
WCPE: NO I don’t like it
Fourth guy: We could go to the Seafood grill up the road
WCPE: NO I don’t like it
Fifth guy: There is a (names chain restaurant) a couple of miles over
WCPE: NO I don’t like it
All of us: OK you pick a place!
We wound up in a freekin mall food court. Where I come from friends don’t let friends eat at mall food courts. One half a step above mickey fucking D.
Damn I was happy when he got a retirement package.
Rick,
I was refering to global communities comment about someone not liking a specific class of food being annoying. Like myself, seafood. I can still go to seafood restaurants and get a steak.
Don’t know why that would be annoying. Or any of his business.
I thought about this thread last noc, and I think I came up with an analogy for us picky eaters.
If a friend of yours had no dress sense–I’m not talking Alzeimer’s here, but seriously, no eye for fashion or what flatters them, would you remark upon that in front of them? Would you force them to go shopping and opine at length about how much better this type of slacks were or this sweater and how they should never wear yellow?
No–at least I don’t think you would, unless your opinon was solicited by them.
So, how is this different from food? (never mind the cultural baggage-I’m talking about manners here, not mores). If I go to a sandwich shop with you and they seem to LOVE mayonaise there-I won’t touch mayo-and I just get chips for lunch, because every fricking sandwich has mayo in it or on it, why is OK for you to make fun of me, to call me names, to state that I am handicapped? That is incredibly rude. It’s my lunch. I am with you, enjoying your company and time spent together. Your lunch is ruined because I’m eating chips for mine? That makes no sense.
All those Nanas out there, Omas and Grandmeres–guess what? YOU are NOT in control of my (or my kids’) satiety centers! It doesn’t matter if you cooked all day-- refusing politely is one thing, trying something is another, forcing food on someone else, to feed your own emotional needs is something else again.
I won’t play that game. I don’t expect my kids to do so. “No thank you” goes a long way. I don’t really have any thoughts as to the 3rd generation theory except to say that my family has been here since the Revolutionary War, so perhaps there is some credence to it.
That said, I have never come across a situation where there has been nothing available for me to eat. I also come from the school of “push it around on your plate and make sparkling conversation to distract them from my not eating”.
[QUOTE=RickWe wound up in a freekin mall food court. Where I come from friends don’t let friends eat at mall food courts. One half a step above mickey fucking D.
Damn I was happy when he got a retirement package.[/QUOTE]
Why wasn’t this handled differently? This guy is over the line–yet you all cowtowed to him and made 5 men miserable so one could be happy.
I’m willing to bet that if he had been told, “the group’s going here for dinner–we want your company, so please come too”, he would have managed to find something on the menu that he could handle. If he flat out refused, then it’s time to say, “we’ll miss your company at dinner-catch up with you tomorrow.”
For example, my sister-in-law tries so hard to be a good host that she ends up being a bad one. When you’re at her house, she asks everyone if they want something every five minutes. She just won’t quit, to the point that people become annoyed with her. Of course most people will just grit their teeth and live with it, but I have mentioned it to her a couple of times, in a “We’re all fine, we’d like to enjoy your company now and not have you wait on us” kind of way. Hosts like that tend to make their guests nervous, in my experience. But what it comes down to in my sister-in-law’s case is that she’s always too eager to please in every aspect of her life. She feels that if she can get you a glass of root beer, she’s making you happy and then she’s happy. That’s really sad, because I’d much rather sit and visit with her than have her bring me cheese and crackers. Anyway, there I’ve gone and rambled off-topic. Continue talking amongst yourselves.
So the enjoyment of the guest doesn’t matter at all? We’re just supposed to play-act for the host’s benefit? Even if picky eating is psychological (and I agree that in most cases it is) there are some very real physical reactions from it. The last time I tried to eat a piece of fruit I just could not get it down my throat. Every time I tried swallowing it I felt like I was going to vomit up the rest of the food I had eaten, which would have been an even greater social faux pas, no? I wound up masticating this wad of fruit pulp (even writing those words grosses me out) in my mouth until I could spit it out discreetly, and then I wound up throwing up later anyway. I had a fruit taste in my mouth for days which wouldn’t go away no matter how many times I brushed my teeth and gargled. Maybe if I was a “real adult” I could suppress my gag reflex and choke it down, but I would feel sick for the rest of the night, which would affect my enjoyment of the company and my opinion of the host. Even if potential vomiting is not an issue, as it would be with some of the foods I dislike (lettuce, which I can’t tolerate even though I love seaweed which is basically the same thing… how’s that for odd?), why should I have to go through it just to placate the host? Note that I am only talking about people who dislike one food or one category of food, not people who will only eat from a very narrow diet like the wing guy mentioned above.
Sure, I could probably “train” myself to like fruit, but it would be a long process and require me to spend money on something I don’t care for (and which might wind up in the toilet moments after I put it in my mouth) and go through weeks/months of walking around feeling that I’m going to vomit up everything I eat because it’s all tainted with a disgusting fruity flavor. Why should I do that when I can just pass on the fruit and move on to something else I like (like sushi, the best food of all space and time)? Why should my “gracious host” force me to do that? Like someone mentioned way upthread, the comparison to cigarette smoke is apt. In most cases someone’s aversion to smelling smoke is psychological, yet nobody chastises them for it. Hell, they pass laws just to accomodate those people! Yet if I pass on the fruit, even while eating everything else on my plate, I might be branded a social misfit by some of you. That just ain’t right.
No, actually you’ve stated quite strongly how rude it is to reject food. We’ve sort of got two themes running here; uber pickiness and it’s effect on the world at large, and proper etiquette as relates to being a good guest.
If I haven’t already said it (who can remember, we’ve been at this a long time), I would no more dream of saying or acting in a way that a normal person would be offended by. I’ve learned how to tactfully decline those things that I don’t care for. I know how to rearrange things on my plate so as to make it look as if I’ve tasted it. You’re never going to convince me that it’s right that I should have to go through this charade, but I do it nonetheless. I’m going to go ahead and say that the vast majority of picky people also do this. Those that don’t make an effort to always be polite and not impose their dislikes on others are assholes, but they’re assholes not for their eating habits, but because they’re selfish. I think this is where my obligation to the social contract ends. There isn’t a reason in the world to put something in my mouth if I don’t want to. There are exceptions when I will ingest something I find objectionable, but that is up to my discretion. Aunt Martha serves me cold instant coffee with a fly in it? Yeah, I’m gonna remove said fly (without her knowing it was there) and drink some of it. It’s about not embarassing her. Uncle Moishe offers me a heaping helping of gefilte fish and I’m saying sorry, bubee, none for me, but thank you so much for offering.
But you’ve said, repeatedly, that someone is going to suffer trauma. Remember, your whole rejection theory?
How is that not a valid reason? Aside from deadly allergies, I’d say it’s the most valid reason for not eating something.
Again, it all comes down to a given individual’s ability / desire to not inconvenience others, and again I’m speaking on behalf of the vast majority of those who make that effort. But now we’re just talking about good manners, which is a behavior unto itself and has nothing to do with what one does or does not consume.
That reminds me of another reason picky eaters are so offensive. The neurosis is a transparent and petty attempt to establish an individual identity - which explains why it’s such an American phenomenon. There’s an obvious psychic pleasure people get when they add special instructions to their orders instead of just ordering straight off of the menu. It’s similar to basing your identity on the products you consume - it’s pathetic and superficial. Get over yourself and learn to eat what the rest of your countrymen eat. No one thinks you’re special because you don’t like bleu cheese.
