So in this alternative scenario Gollum doesn’t fall with the ring into Mount Doom. Frodo and Sam drag him out of the mountain with them. Would Gandalf agree to save him, too? Would the eagles? If Gandalf did save him, how would Aragon and the realms of men treat him? Would there be any sympathy for him? He is the ring’s greatest victim, after all. Some of the most powerful beings of middle earth dared not be under the influence of the ring for even a moment. Gollum had the ring for centuries. Boromir was cast under the ring’s power and he was still spoken highly of after his death. Would Gollum be given the same courtesy?
Would he still be addicted to the ring? Both Frodo and Bilbo apparently still missed the ring after its destruction. He’d probably start to age rapidly as Bilbo. Would he be allowed into the Undying Lands? He’s technically a ringbearer as well.
Before he was a Ringbearer he was a murderer, so no, probably not. And did Bilbo and Frodo and Samwise get to go to Valinor itself or just Tol Eressea?
Yep - look at how much Bilbo aged between the party and Rivendell, and Gollum/Smeagol had already lived an ‘un-naturally long life’ - without the ring (and the search for it) to sustain him - he would be gone in short order.
As far as the Murder charge - while true - that was from the influence of the ring as well.
Thanks. Certainly some good speculation in that thread.
It’s been awhile since I read the books, but did Gollum kill any non-orcs in the books? IIRC, in the Hobbit, under the Misty Mountains, he killed and ate any orcs or goblins that got lost in the caves. I suppose some humans, dwarfs, or elves might occasionally become dinner over the centuries. Their deaths would be blamed on the goblins, however. Deagol’s murder would also be hard, if not impossible, to tie to Gollum.
Kinda moot as the mechanism on how to get to the undying lands is vague. Maybe there’s a magical test of worthiness that decides if you get in. Maybe if you’re unworthy the ship, of otherwise worthy travellers, will vanish beneath your feet and carry on while you fall in the ocean.
His friend Deagol (another hobbit-like creature) originally found the Ring while fishing, and Smeagol killed him for it. But as noted, it was under the influence of the Ring and would probably be given a pass.
And as Chronos and others noted, it’s a moot point anyway - he couldn’t have survived the Ring’s destruction.
Bilbo probably felt it, and it was probably unpleasant, but we know it wasn’t immediately lethal for him, since he was still alive a few months later to board the westbound ship.
I’ve always seen Gollum dying with the Ring as an act of mercy, precisely because of what Chronos and Colibri say. The one part where Eru Ilúvatar interfered wasn’t just to destroy the ring, but to destroy Gollum as well. The ability to die is considered a good thing in Middle Earth.
The Ring may have been a mitigating factor in the murder of Deagol, but that was still mostly on Smeagol. He was influenced by the Ring, but only by the sight of it, not even the touch, and that for only a few minutes. And with only that barest minimum amount of influence, he casually murders his best friend. Nobody else exposed to the Ring comes even close to that.