If the world were this one thread, that may be true. But it’s not, and I’m aware of where you stand on the issues because you’ve been kind enough to publish them here.
Anyway, your point really isn’t relevant, as I never once claimed you were one party or the other, or held one view point or another. I only have pointed out that you feel that others who don’t hold your viewpoint are contemptable to put it mildly.
And I disagree with that stance.
So you keep saying. But again this misses the point. You were crystal-clear that someone who does not share your political beliefs will never be your lover, and only in exceptional circumstances will be your friend. That such people are akin to white supremists and flat-earth believers. You keep iterating that “you don’t know me well enough to use other examples”, but you’ve never once taken back this assertion. And this assertion – that people who don’t hold your political viewpoint are evil – is one I disagree with.
See, you just did it again. You just said that people who don’t hold your viewpoint are incapable of thinking for themselves. You’re crystal-clear in your assertion that there is only one true viewpoint in the world, and that is the Oy! viewpoint. And the only possible reason one would disagree is if they are stupid.
And again, I disagree.
And again. Read your words. You just said “I don’t wish to discuss this. There is no viewpoint but my viewpoint. I refuse to respect anyone who holds another view.”
a. tolerance. “Willingness to recognize and respect the beliefs or practices of others”
b. Please show one place where I “misconstrued” what you said. You said that you equate those that don’t share your view with racists, idiots and mentally challenged. Please either show me how your views could’ve been construed otherwise, or recant those statements.
c. Please show me once where I claimed you to be a Democrat. Not that I have a problem with you, if you were.
Seeing as how you claim you’ve never revealed your beliefs here, I don’t see how that’s possible.
I think it is disingenuous to argue that if one is willing to fight for the right of another to their beliefs, that that person is still somehow intolerant because they think those beliefs are wrong.
However, even though you are wrong, and even though I have no qualms about bringing your wrongness to your awareness, Bill H, I would indeed fight for your right to hold those beliefs. That’s what tolerance means.
I recognize and respect that your wrong beliefs are, despite their wrongness, worth fighting for against someone who would forcefully deny you them.
My wife and I very rarely vote for the same candidates. I vote Republican about 85% of the time- I WOULD vote Republican more often, except that there’s a certain Bozo fringe of the party that I always have to watch out for. Such candidates usually show up in the judicial races, since they figure (correctly) that 99% of the electorate has no idea who the state and county judges are, which means there’s a chance ANYBODY could get lucky and win!
Moreover, now and then, there’s a Democrat running for a position in which ideology isn’t all that important. If, say, I know that an incumbent Democrat has been doing a solid job as a Comptroller or Sheriff, I’ll vote for that Democrat.
Otherwise, I generally go for the Republican.
My wife, on the other hand, has probably never voted for a Republican for any office in her life. Neither have her parents. Luckily, we find other things to talk about.
I can’t think of their names, but he was a Clinton adviser (and shaves his head) and she works in the White House. If those two can keep from killing each other, there should be no problem for us common folks.
My wife worries about us canceling out each other’s vote. It doesn’t matter to her who we vote for, she just doesn’t want me to cancel her vote. That has presented some non-lethal problems in the past, but this year she decided one candidate was full of shit and I agree with her. I understand he is having trouble with the female vote, which may explain her decision.
My GF and I don’t usually agree politically and it appears as though we are not going to be voting for the same presidential candidate. It hasn’t caused any friction in our household, however. We respect each other’s opinions and decisions. Of course I would love for her to change her mind and we can discuss the issues without getting snitty with one another which I think is great. At least I know that she is voting her conscience and not out of spite.
The only thing that grinds me is that we will cancel out each other’s vote.
Well, I still do have 6 days to teach her the error of her ways.
If my SO supported the Pubbies, I’d be mystified, but I could put up with his choice. After all, love means taking everything about the person you’re with, not merely the good bits. My in-laws are voting Bush, yet I still love them. They’re good people. albeit with perplexing political views.
To me, Bill H’s and Oy’s sparring really points to the crux of the original question, which I really intended as a poll of sorts. That is, how important is it to you that your mate share your politics?
It’s only natural that it will make more of a difference to some than others. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for politics to be a dealbreaker in a relationship IF you see it as an indication of differing values or if it’s just that important to you.
As for me, I started this thread because I have a sneaking suspicion my GF may be voting for the “other guy” for the wrong reasons. We share many beliefs on the issues, but she just doesn’t *like * my guy (thinks he’s smarmy, arrogant, etc. … do you know who I’m talking about yet?).
But, like others in this thread, I respect her right to an opinion and respect her right to a confidential vote.
Could I live with an SO who disagreed with me dramatically on politics or religion? Sure. My five sibs and their spouses are all across the board politically and religiously, and I love them all. What I could not do is live with an SO who does not realize that good-hearted, intelligent people can come to very different conclusions about some very important things. Even if I disagree vehemently, it does not make them any less good-hearted or intelligent.
Maybe I should’ve been a bit clearer in that statement. I feel that the administration is morally bankrupt. I don’t know what to think about the people who support them. I’m certain that many of their supporters have perfectly innocent reasons for doing so. My parents, sister and brother-in-law are all strong Bush supporters and while I would never consider them morally bankrupt, I do feel that they’re a tad short-sighted (They want Bush because Kerry "kills babies and supports the end of traditional, God-ified marriage, apparently).
Yeah, sleestack, I was going to address that too, after I got done rolling my eyes, but then I decided that that wouldn’t make me very tolerant either.
Political passion and intellectual sophistication are not the same thing.
But I have friends who agree with malkavia, and although I cannot imagine thinking that things are so neatly wrapped up into good=this side of the fence and bad=that side of the fence, I respect their passion and concern.
But it’s really easy for me to say that. I have the maddening ability to see multiple sides of each situation, a character flaw much like that of the maligned Mr. Kerry.
I’m useless and wishy-washy, am not fond of either candidate, and voted for Nader in the last election because I could (SC will go Bush no matter what) and may do the same this time. My husband voted for Gore I believe.
Back to the OP, my husband and I disagree on some political issues but we’re both all over the place. We don’t talk about it much, because we do tend to fuss.
Hubby tends to systematically bash whatever Republicans say, agree with Democrats, and then INSIST that he’s independent and refuses to claim being liberal. Frustrates me to no end. 'Course, I guess I say annoying things too.
So since there is no “right” candidate IMO (superb post, PunditLisa, I can hardly argue with my husband’s decision, whatever it may be.
This is a timely question for me as this issue has never really cropped up till this election. I have never felt this strongly about an election. My wife’s decision to vote for the current president has left me puzzled really. It is only really an issue because my MIL is an ardent mega conservative (she gets her news exclusively from FoxNews, Washington Times, and NewsMaxx) and sometimes I get the feeling (more like a nightmare) my wife will one day turn into her mother. Ugh. Anyway, we really don’t discuss politics. I make the occasional comment about something inthe newspaper or ask her to read an article, and she hardly talks about her views. It rarely comes to much more than that. Which is for the best, I’m sorry to say, cause I’m not sure where it would lead.
Only the very naive follow any political credo hook, line and sinker. My beliefs and view of the world are in some cases very strongly aligned to my political leanings, and in other cases at odds with it, and I see no reason to doubt that anyone else with whom I choose to associate would be different. I’m a dyed in the wool leftist, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that I feel I have to support everything any left-leaning politician, political party or institution does or says. I judge people on how they behave in every day life, and how that agrees with my fundamental personal views rather than on how they vote. Some of the people I most respect have a very different political take on the world to me, while I can agree politically with people with whom I know I have very little in common.
I don’t have a problem with having an emotional attachment to someone who votes for a different politiacal party so long as we share the same moral and ethical values. I would have a problem with someone who blindly and uncynically supports any political party or candidate across the board simply because I would presume that person to be lacking in the intelligence that is a prerequisite for me in any emotional relationship.
I associate with people with views that are very different than mine. As I said before, I can’t imagine that I’d have many friends if I excluded people from my life based on religion or politics.
What I couldn’t associate with, I don’t think, would be someone so rigid that they’d take a political affilation so seriously as to boot someone out of their life who was otherwise perfectly acceptable and lovable to them, and who was “acceptable” before the affiliation was discovered. For someone to dump somebody based on that would obviously mean that this person has a stick up the butt and would be no fun to be around. Yeesh. (I’d be thinking, “Adios, buddy. You’re scaring me.”)
Political leanings, at least for some of us, are based on very strong, central, issues. They’re directly related to our moral values, to our worldview, to what we believe in, to what we care for, to what we believe is worth fighting for, to what we expect from other people, to the way we like and want to live, to what we abhor or despise, and to what we love or admire.
I couldn’t swear it would be impossible for me to fall in love with someone who would have a political stance opposite to mine, but I can tell with certainty that it’s a massive turn-off.
I can only assume that for people who don’t understand why the political opinions of our SO would make a difference, politics aren’t so intimely tied with everything they are. Which doesn’t mean by the way, that we’re necessarily political activists. It’s rather that I can’t imagine being the same person, with the same values and the same worldview and supporting the opposite political stance. Someone who support this stance doesn’t share my values and worldview. There’s a huge gap between us, and it would be very difficult to bridge it with love. Her position, if strongly held, would have to derive from values and ideas I oppose.
If it’s unacceptable to find that the worldview of someone isn’t a valid reason to choose him/her or not as partner, what is acceptable? The size of her boobs, for instance, is, but her political opinion isn’t?
Anyway, you don’t really choose to whom you’re attracted to or to whom you fall in love with. Outside my family, all the people I liked a lot, I went along very well with were either leftists or people who didn’t care about politics. I’ve never until now been attracted to a firm right-winger.
Anywazy, generally speaking, I think any reason why someone chose a partner for is perfectly valid. Nobody is under any obligation to comply with an externally defined set of rules when deciding with whom he wants to live with.
With an exception : people who include in their decision elements like wealth or income. It contradicts what I wrote above, but I just can’t help myself. I’ve an utter despise for people who take money into account when it comes to relationships. I actually can’t even comprehend how it can influence one’s choice in one’s love life.
