Well, in that case, rather than backtrack and spin and otherwise try to justify my conclusion, I’ll just stand corrected, and apologize for posting unwarranted assumptions.
What is it that makes Christmas Eve Vespers a BIG CELEBRATION, as distinguished from any other service?
Where did I write that I would watch the Super Bowl? I said I would not begrudge others their enjoyment of it, even if it meant that they take a day off to do it.
I am not talking about “require”, I am talking about employers having a heart and realizing that many of their employees want to have a “special” day with family. This may or may not be religious in nature. I know many atheists who celebrate Christmas. It’s a fun, “special” day. I am all for more people having the opportunity to celebrate “special” days, whether it be Christmas, or Super Bowl. But the trend is that more and more “special” days are becoming days that working schlubs are expected to work. It wasn’t always this way. I think this new trend is a shame. That is the essence of my rant.
Well, bully for you. But not everyone shares your attitude. Super Bowl is just another day for me, but I actually do recognize that many people enjoy it. And, softie that I am, I do not begrudge them that. I’m funny that way, I like to see people enjoy these things. And, in fact, I wouldn’t begrudge them a day off to enjoy it. I guess you would? OK.
I don’t know who “they” are, but that is not my desire. And where does “the whole world” come into this? As I have said before, if an employer can gather together enough employees to work a holiday, that’s fabulous. But when an obvious majority of the staff is unhappy to work that single day, it seems hard-hearted to expect them to, when most everyone around them is getting the day off.
Not me, I don’t care what people do. I have no illusions that I can change anyone’s behavior. All I would like is that people “have a heart” and appreciate that a few scant days a year are “special” days to many other people, even if you don’t give a damn about them. Just because YOU don’t give a shit, don’t rain on their parade.
So what about the vicitms of circumstance? They get screwed over in these dead-end jobs, just like the people who “choose” to be stuck in dead-end jobs. How do you decide which is which? Do you know their life stories? Their background? Their cultural upbringing?
It’s not a major “screwing over”, but yeah, it’s showing no humanity. By “humanity”, I mean recognizing that these drone workers have LIVES, and maybe they want to spend a holiday with their family once in a while. It wouldn’t even have to be a paid holiday (God Forbid I wish for that) but just the option of taking a very special holiday.
Oh my gosh. How terrible. Well, what do you expect from a stupid working drone? (Well, I don’t work retail anymore…but I’ll always be a drone at heart! :D) How gracious and tactful of you to bring that up.
What? When did I make personal accusations towards you? I was talking about employers, mostly, and the apathetic people who don’t see any reason to change the crappy way things are, and the current trends that are developing. I am sure the people who you tip so generously appreciate it, and I think it is a wonderful thing for you to do.
And you are able to divine, just from looking at all these faceless drones who work all these dead-end jobs, which ones didn’t work hard enough to get out of whatever rut? So you are able to determine which ones deserve no better, and are there because of their own laziness? So screw 'em?
I am sure you were a better boss than some of the ones I’ve worked for. Though - with some of the attitude you display here, maybe I shouldn’t be so sure. However - I am willing to believe that you have been a good boss/owner. But, there is an issue of bad morale. When a boss gets to have all the perks of days off, while they take away more and more of the few holidays the workers used to be able to count on, it cannot be a good thing for morale. But, oh well. Who cares? They deserve to have their crappy jobs, they didn’t work hard enough to do better. So screw 'em.
kylesdad88-
OK, the difference is, Christmas Day, liturgy is basically the same as your average Sunday Liturgy, only with some of the usual hymns and prayers replaced by ones specifically honoring the Birth of Christ.
Christmas Eve (I confess, this does have entertainment value), there is a HUGE procession, with the kids dressed as angels and shepherds, etc. (the three kings didn’t actually show until Theophany, I think…), liturgy is longer and noisier and generally more festive.
kaylasdad. I’m a mess.
Wait a minute. Kayla has 98 other dads??? How does that happen?
Thea,
Are not Casinos tools of the devil?
You act all year as an agent of the devil, then complain that you can’t go worship god?
Maybee it is your gods way of punishing you for your evil work.
Perhaps you have sinned too well to be welcome in his house?
I am not religous but I do see some irony in a “christian” working a casino, grumbling about greed in others.
Bzzzt. Please try to stay on topic. From the Catechism of the Catholic Church
2413 Games of chance (card games, etc.) or wagers are not in themselves contrary to justice. They become morally unacceptable when they deprive someone of what is necessary to provide for his needs and those of others. The passion for gambling risks becoming an enslavement. Unfair wagers and cheating at games constitute grave matter, unless the damage inflicted is so slight that the one who suffers it cannot reasonably consider it significant.
[hijack]
Robin,
Don’t get too upset at Thea here. If I recall correctly, she is a Byzantine Rite Catholic, which means she can attend services of either her Rite or the Latin Rite ( Roman Catholic to most people). It is not uncommon for a single well-staffed Latin Rite parish to have as many as six or seven Masses between Sat evening and Sunday evening (all of which count for the Sunday obligation). I live in a fairly Catholic part of NYC where parishes are close together and I can easily attend any of three Saturday evening Masses, at least six on Sunday morning and three more Sunday evening for a total of twelve ( all at different times- I left out the simultaneous ones) . It’s not so much that Jews have fewer options, it’s more that Catholics have more options than any other religion I know of.
Thanks, manhattan and doreen.
I have the same options. I can go to Reform, Conservative or Orthodox services. The one exception is High Holiday services, but even then, I can still find a synagogue or somewhere I can attend, even if it’s a college Hillel group.
Robin
Casnio worker turns into Christmas Judge Judy. People can celebrate Christmas or any other holiday anyway they want. If you’re so bothered, get another job. Then you’ve got it all covered. You can celebrate Christmas anyway you want, and you won’t have to look at the people who are not celebrating correctly.
This whole thread is really fucking overdramatic.
I have worked four retail jobs in the past five years. All of those jobs gave me Thankgiving and Christmas off. That’s it. In the past five years, I have worked every Black Friday, every Christmas Eve, every December 26th (pure retail hell), every New Year’e Eve, every New Year’s Day, every Easter, every Memorial Day, every Fourth of July, and every Labor Day. I am not exaggerating - I have not had one of those days to myself EVER. I worked this Christmas Eve 9-5:30. I’m at work at 6:00 am January 1st.
Am I complaining? NO, because I need the money. I need the overtime. Honestly, I volunteered to be in at 6am New Year’s Day, because I will make double time-and-a-half. When my birthday comes around, I request off; same with other important holidays. Like Phil said, that’s the adult thing to do.
Come on people, it’s the nature of retail. Most people have off, so I work. I am putting myself through college and need the money, so I work when I can. And I understand that people need and want to shop on their days off, so I’m at work. I don’t see what’s so hard about it.
And I seriously question the concept that retail employees will never have a long weekend, or can never request a Saturday off, or can never take a sick day. None of my jobs were that strict. The job I have now has a rotating schedule so everyone gets at least one weekend off a month. I can schedule personal days (with pay) or days off (without pay) as long as the schedule is not yet made. If it is, I can switch with someone. I work 40-50 hour weeks (and have since June) and can find no reason to complain about my schedule. If I have the foresight to request off, I do; if not, I make an effort to switch; when push comes to shove, I call out. I did the 9-5 rigamarole, currently I’m working way too may 1-9:30 shifts, sometimes I’m late one day, early the next. It’s what I do; it’s what they pay me for. :rolleyes:
Judging from my varied experiance (I worked at a restaurant, a clothing store, a used record store, and now I work at a home furnishings store), I seriously question the melodramatic assertation that you HAVE to work every day, that you are being dragged kicking and screaming to work by the evil boss while your daughter cries, “Mommy! Wait!” because it’s her tenth birthday and you couldn’t get off.
Guinistasia - I understand. I really do. We’re in the same boat. I was treated like shit five times over on Christmas Eve - I almost got written up because I called a very rude customer a “misogynistic prick” under my breath and he heard. But I don’t have a choice, so I deal with it.
As for the actual OP - yeah right. Get your head out of your ass. Everyone has to observe your religious holidays exactly the way you want so you can go to church. Sure thing. BTW, the Orthodox Jews called and they’re really upset that you aren’t open December 25th. So did the atheists, the Muslims, the Pagans, the Wiccans, and those that worship ancestral African deities. They’re pissed about that whole Easter thing too.
When I worked retail, I don’t believe I had any of these days off either. I cannot speak for everyone, but I am specifically (at least part of the time) talking about Christmas - not every holiday of the year. And you admit that you get Christmas and Thanksgiving off, right? Well, Thea didn’t get Christmas off, and it looks like more and more people are no longer going to be able to count on having this holiday off.
Asking for the day off is the right route to take - the problem is, it doesn’t always work. Especially not when everyone else wants the same day off as well.
Not all retail hell is created equal. I’ve already related my experience with having Sundays off. Calling in sick was a bitch at my old retail job as well. My supervisor cracked a fit when I wanted to stay home with my disabled sister, the day of the Northridge Earthquake. (I stayed home anyway.) Once when I was sick at work and wanted to go home, I was told to suck it up, and take more aspirin. Oh, I did manage to call in sick once in a while, but never without a lot of grief.
It’s true, there were other times when I could actually get some time off. It all depended on how busy the schedule was. But the point is, on certain very popular holidays (like Christmas) many retail/dead-end jobs will not let their employees off. And it wasn’t always this way.
Once again, we’re not talking about getting off on some random day that (perhaps) no one else wants off. We are talking about a very popular holiday that a lot of people usually don’t work, and a lot of people want off. And, as far as the “melodramatic assertion” that some bosses are evil enough to expect you to leave your family during important times, read my reference above about the Northridge quake. Stuff like that does happen.
originally posted by Doreen
originally posted by Nacho4Sara
[quote]
And I seriously question the concept that retail employees will never have a long weekend, or can never request a Saturday off, or can never take a sick day. None of my jobs were that strict
[quote/]
The only thing I said was never have a three-day weekend,and perhaps I should have specified three day holiday weekend. I didn’t say never have Saturday off, I said never get both Sat and Sun off unless you’re on vacation. You say every employee at your job gets one weekend off a month.That’s great.I would imagine to make up for it you probably end up working both Sat and Sun sometimes. It’s also not the norm.And I never said anything about not being able to take sick days.
You can indeed do all those things except when too many people want off to give them all the day off ( and remember, we’re talking about employers, who unlike yours don’t give Thanksgiving and Christmas off-two days when a lot of people would request off) and still have the store staffed.If you need 10 employees and only 2 want to work, people are going to be scheduled who doesn’t want to be and they won’t have anyone to switch with.
Look, my post wasn’t really a “retail sucks” post, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable for those whose employers are open on Christmas and Thankgiving to wish that things were otherwise.
I see what part of the problem is.
Guinastasia thinks (typical of many Dopers) that because I do no not agree, I do not understand.
yosemitebabe thinks that I am the boss/owner, which I am not.
I guess if people are going to stubbornly refuse to read what I write rather than what they think I wrote, I’m done.
BTW, just because I work in an office at a desk, have regular 8:30-5:30 hours, and get holidays off doesn’t meaning I’m not a “working shlub.”
Poly, nothing wrong in general with what you say. My point throughout the thread is that some businesses are going to stay open on the holidays as they have every right to, and that means some employees who would rather be elsewhere are going to have to be at work sometimes, and that’s life. I would much rather be off on July 20 every year to celebrate my anniversary, but as long as I work for this company, I never will be. That’s life.
Hehehe…has no one heard that the Catholics LOVE to gamble?
I just wish our former pastor was better at it. (He stole millions from the Parish for himself…ever hear of Walter Benz? Jackass).
But seriously, we have raffles, Bingo Night, casino night, etc etc…
And you continually think I try to tell people how they should spend their holiday. I’m not-I’m just saying it’s not going to kill anyone to not shop one day. (And yes, you’ll say it won’t kill me to work-but I think missing Xmas would be more of a bummer to than to miss shopping.)
Oh, BTW, yosemitebabe, if the World Series is really important to me and millions of other Americans, should businesses close or drastically readjust their schedules for 4-7 nights to accommodate me? How about if the playoffs are equally important? That’s as many as 19 days, total. More, if I follow a team in both leagues and the games aren’t all on the same days.
Sorry, babe, but you’re gonna have to look elsewhere than me to find someone who is willing to inconvenience himself in the slightest to encourage your practice of a belief system I strongly disagree with. I will not interefere with your practicing it, but neither will I subsidize it.
Want x-mas off? Get another job. Take some responsibility for your own choices instead of whining about others’ lack of understanding and support for your personal choices. As was stated very well above, your employer is in the business to make money, not to support his employees’ religious preferences. You can pick any day of the year to get together with your family. You could choose to have your family celebration the week before or after Christmas. Surely you don’t believe anything actually happened on Dec 25 2000 years ago, do you?
Hey, as long as you have decided to believe in some mythical mystical bullshit, its a short hop over to Eastern Orthodoxy. You probably won’t have too much competition for taking off the orthodox x-mas!
Gee, dinsdale, tell us how you REALLY feel…