What In The World Is Wrong With The UK? (Pedophilia and Child Abuse Over The Years)

This was the news story today

This is of course coming shortly after the Jimmy Savile report (which is horrifying) and now there are a few more investigations similar to the Savile cases underway.

What in the world was going on in the UK? How can there be such unbelievable institutional failure and indifference over so many years? Isn’t it a natural human instinct for adults to protect children? What went wrong here?

On a further note, after watching the documentary on the Hillsborough Disaster, I’m beginning to notice a theme with how the UK handles horrible mistakes by leaders. They avoid all blame and accuse the victims, then when enough years has gone by and everyone who was in charge back then is retired or dead, somebody completely unrelated releases a “report” and everyone apologizes.

Is this the culture there? I’ve been to the blue-collar parts of the UK and understand the culture somewhat, but how in the world does it come down to this?

You think the UK is alone in this?

I can see no reason why the UK would be a special case regarding the rate of child-abuse or the prevalence of cover-ups. There is no doubt that the way child-abuse cases are handled has changed out of all recognition from the latter part of the last century and the slew of cases is merely the fall-out of that shake-up. Quite right too.

So while the UK is digging wide and deep and dealing with past horrors pretty ruthlessly so other countries may well be wondering to themselves “why is our Jimmy Savile? where is our Rolf Harris?” Is the UK finding and dealing with too many? or are other countries failing to deal with their cases at all?

There seems to be very much a cultural aspect to the organised use of children.

This particular report seems to be related to a number of men of Pakistani origin, and we have had several other such cases in the last few years.

There is a demand from such people, I frequently come across Pakistani background prisoners who express a disturbing contempt for women, and by that - I mean talk that includes sexual exploitation of white women. This is not the idle chat or banter either, I’ve been in this game for long enough to sort out the intent behind words.

This is the only prison grouping that even slightly dares to talk in this way, absolutely no other non-sex offender racial group of prisoners would talk in this way.

I do not pretend that this is exclusively a Pakistani male issue at all, but one thing is certain, if white prisoners ever were to express such views they would be slashed and damaged extremely quickly by other white prisoners, yet I do not come across Pakistani prisoners policing each other in this way. Not that I recommend that this should be done at all, but it does serve to show a certain outlook.

There is a closed culture attitude to all this, it is very difficult for investigators to get into these almost self supporting populations.

I also think there is a reluctance on the part of agencies of various types to become involved, and I often wonder if that it because there is a fear of being accused of racism or perhaps of upsetting Muslim groupings, there is very much a hands off culture for fear of being seen to be racist or discrimination on religious grounds - and its something that these criminals are only too happy to exploit.

For the record, I work with offenders and have done for many years, I am also of part Indian extraction, but I can’t help but notice what is right in my face. I am probably much more acutely aware of racial discrimination issues than the vast majority of posters on here, since one of my roles is to look into HR cases that may well have discrimination as a central issue in complaints and grievances, in other words, I do know what I am talking about and have considered my words here, - I know and see and hear what happens.

Another point, have you noticed just how defensive I had to make my comments? That just shows how difficult it is to raise these issues about culture without having to justify the comments, and its this conditioning that makes crimes such as these more possible by specific groups.

Put simply, political correctness has bled over into criminal investigation and can hamper a realistic assessment of events.

Well first of all this sort of thing is not unique to the UK. Many countries have scandals where institutions that were once held in high regard and entrusted with the duty of care have been found to neglect their responsibilities and have failed to protect the vulnerable.

However, there are a couple of things that make the UK stand out.

Firstly the UK has a vigorous press and there is a public appetite for news about scandals such as this. They will be discussed endlessly in the press for months to come and the government will come under pressure to be seen to be doing something about it. It will become a subject of political debate and there will be a lot of cynical point scoring over the failure of these institutions. The usual response is a government inquiry of some kind.

Looking at the institutions involved, it seems the local government social work department and the police and being held responsible for not protecting youngsters in the care of the local authorities from sexual predators.

We have been here before. The Rochdale case is very recent, there have been many others over the past few decades where groups of men exploit vulnerable girls who are supposed to be under the care of the local social services. The Savile case was a different type of case in that it was not localised and involved other institutions like the BBC and the NHS.

How these institutions respond when a scandal like this blows up is often very disappointing. The managers and executives seem to be able to avoid responsibility and often go on to manage other similar organisations. They are well paid professionals who can afford good legal representation and they do not get to the top of organisations like these without acquiring deft political skills. Instead, the lowest level of social worker is usually hung out to dry. Shamed and pilloried in the press for unprofessional conduct and neglect of duty. Devil take the hindmost.

One of my friends is a social worker in London and tells me that social work departments responsible for child protection operate under a cloud of fear that they may be implicated in some scandal. They are run on the basis that all checks and balances are measured by a bureaucratic system of reports. Lots of forms and ticks in boxes to show that the job is being done in an agreed manner so no-one can point the finger of blame. There is a great fear of being implicated in a scandal and social workers do the job by the book. In the course of the job, they often feel quite powerless to deal with some situations where young kids go out of control and do damage to not only themselves, but to others.

I think there is a realisation in government that beating up social work departments is not going to solve this problem. Many have serious difficulty in recruiting staff at the moment because it is seen as a very risky career and the public perception of social work as a professional is unsympathetic and at time contemptuous. Scandal stories may sell lots of newspapers, but someone has to pick up the pieces and do the job.

The police do much the same, their job is to enforce the law and often they have to deal with people who are vulnerable and inadequate as well as those who are criminal. Chasing runaways takes up a lot of their time.

Kids from broken homes, whose parents may be very immature themselves, suffering from drug addiction and maybe have a history of abuse. The kids get taken into care and they may themselves have serious behavioural problems.

How is a social worker supposed to stop them from keeping bad company? Meeting sexual predators, gangsters, criminals, pimps? How are the police supposed to deal with them? They find them in some bad place, take them back to the care home, they get a call later and a car is waiting for them outside. It takes a concentrated effort by different agencies to break up this sort of cycle and that takes resources which compete with other priorities.

I am sure it is possible to deal with this situation effectively with some sort of organisation dedicated to the task and a proper legal framework. Or simply refocussing existing police/social work/probation service/healthcare/ services.

As it stands at the moment, overworked police and social workers have an unenviable job and it is little wonder that this sort of scandal persists. Police and social services are also local services and what happens in another borough is a different department. There are gaps. This looks like a big one and clearly it was not dealt with and allowed to grow into a significant problem.

There are, I am sure, several other investigations going on and they will be reporting over the next few years. There will be reports, recommendations and eventually changes in the law. Whether it results in institutional reform, that is another matter.

Somehow I don’t think local hoods targeting girls in social services care homes is a problem unique to the UK. Nor is the tendency of public service institutions to protect themselves by whatever means. What is remarkable is probably the wave of moral panic and hand wringing that will go on in the public conversation when public services let everyone down so conspicuously. The public in the UK have high expectations of public services and get very upset when they don’t deliver on matters as serious as child protection.

However, there are some encouraging signs of political commitment and a rational approach towards dealing with problem families on a national scale:

https://www.gov.uk/government/policies/helping-troubled-families-turn-their-lives-around

Makes me wonder how other countries deal with this sort of issue.

One thing im noticing from this post is the non appearance of the racial angle of the story. And people wonder why the Right often think liberal elements in society and media are a complete shower of sh*t.

With stories such as this the US and UK really do need The Daily Mail and Fox News.

What’s wrong with the rest of the world that they don’t uncover things like this?

I would, indeed, like to hear more about this. Ideally not from the Daily Mail or Fox News, though.

It would be a very convenient distraction to blame it on the immigrant background of a few dodgy characters from the local takeaway.

Let the failures of the police to apprehend perpetrators and excuse the social services for exercising their duty of care because of sensitivities over ‘political correctness’?

Why not give an anti-EU ‘Human Rights Act’ angle as well?

The local police, the local council its social services organisation failed to work together the way they were supposed to. There was supposed to be a ‘multi-agency’ approach to issues like this. An approach that developed as a result of similar previous cases. It did not work and there was clearly a failure of management.

I expect the answer is buried in the report.

http://www.rotherham.gov.uk/downloads/file/1407/independent_inquiry_cse_in_rotherham

I didn’t mention it because my questions spanned far more than just this scandal.

If you made the assumption I’m some politically correct liberal off my short OP, you need to ask yourself if you’re assumptions are based in reality or in the angry world in your head.

I did not make that assumption. Your post was most noticeable however for what it failed to mention. Some media organizations(and individuals) do need to be dragged kicking and screaming to face upto the obvious. I felt this needed pointing out.

This council are the same council who only a few years ago removed 3 Eastern European children from the home of foster parents beause the foster parents were UKIP members.

In previous discussions I’ve seen it blamed on a pervasive culture of corruption. It was handled that way simply because that’s how any potential scandal was handled. And it got worse and worse and spread farther and farther because that’s just what happens when you start systematically covering things up; the little scandal involving one person grows into a huge one involving many.

If you want to ignore the cultural aspects of this and emphasise the failures of the authorities, then that’s your own personal affair.

Whilst the safeguarding agencies have signally failed, the real responsibility lies in the perpetrators, and you simply cannot ignore that.

I have already mentioned, it is so very difficult to get a toehold into some of these close communities. I do not see the local Islamic leaders as frontline spokesmen in all this, these are supposed to be community leaders, and they always always always react in the very same way, by condemning these behaviours long after everyone else has had their own failings documented in an inadequate ‘me too’ spirit.

They never bring these things up themselves, the Pakistani communities from which these offenders come from are never the source of the whistle blowing, I have truly never seen one of these community leaders being the ones who were ignored by the authorities, not ever in one report.

If you read section 11 of that report, the thing that is blindingly obvious is that it really is Asian and immigrant individuals that were involved and that their own communities treated the subject as taboo, shirking and turning away, they simply abrogated their responsibilities.

The abuse of white girls may well be the reason that this came to notice, and there is a strong likelihood that Asian girls are at even greater risk, the report does state that this is the case. What it cannot say is the extent of rape within the Asian community, but its almost certainly very difficult for such girls to find somewhere to turn, and this is likely to be down to the isolationist and cultural aspects of immigrant Pakistani culture.

It is not popular to examine the cultural aspects to this, but not to do so is to fail these girls because it means not putting in place the means with which to engage them and it means continuing with Asian immigrant community isolation.

These communities bear a massive part of the responsibility for allowing the environment to exist where such abuse can take place - its all very well stating that Safeguarding agencies failed, but they simply cannot operate without the cooperation of the communities they are intended to serve - and that is lacking.

A few dodgy characters from the local takeaway? Just to be factually correct, it is not immigrants here but Muslim immigrants who are over represented as culprits in this case. No need to blame the Poles, Indians or Bulgarians when we can name and shame those who were for the most part to blame. Your response is the type of pussyfooting around the issue that has lead to these problems and abuses. The reason I brought up the race issue is because the report brought up the race issue. This is not to suggest every Muslim is a paedophile and every paedophile a Muslim. But there is a certain problem with adult Muslims and girls of a certain age, many of those girls being white.

Yes, lets settle on it being a management problem. That way we can ignore race here as a rather major factor.

Reading through the report, it appears that the Pakistani heritage women were also targeted for sexual exploitation by gangs.

It looks like these gangs were equal opportunity abusers and also not just Pakistani heritage, but also Slovak Roma and Kosovan as well as British. There was some reticence to report the heritage because of fears of racist political elements stirring up tension between communities.

It looks like the police in the early stages engaged in a coverup and treated researchers from the Home Office into child abuse very shabbily.

Section 10 and 11 are quite revealing.

It sounds like the locally elected councillors were also a boorish macho group who did not think child protection was an important issue.

It seems to me that at a national level there is a strategy to deal with these child protection issues on by ensuring the police, council, social services, schools, health service and community groups work together. But this has not really been effective until just a couple of years ago.

This report is a record of the various initiatives that took place over 14 years to reform the system of child protection in Rotherham. It pulls no punches about the screw ups and tensions amongst and within the organisations that led to vulnerable children being failed in this way. There are also some heroes as well who tried to darnedest to get things moving. It is a big ‘mea culpa’ and I think this will be read by social work departments up and down the country. Most of the problems seem

It is the straight dope.

A position that reeks of “We don’t want to blame it on the white Christian authorities, so we’ll blame it on the swarthy foreigners with the funny religion.”

I suspect that at least part of it is an attitude of “underclass kids don’t matter much and they’re probably all having sex and taking drugs anyway so why bother?” on the part of the council and an attitude of “well, what did you expect - they’re all like that” from the general public, fuelled by the tabloids press’ demonisation of lower-class youth.

The sad truth is that nobody cared enough.

When the swarthy foreigners were the actual abusers it seems they should get the major share of whatever blame is going around.
You may be thankful no-one’s blaming the catholics, as in the days of yore.

What exactly do you think the liberal media should be saying about swarthy foreigners?

What sort of mindset actually posts this drivel. Shove your hand up a twelve year old girls vajayjay, afterwards give her a good satisfying punch to the face; nevermind, lets lay most of the blame on the authorities.

Who, me ? I have no particular opinion.

I wouldn’t object if rapists got themselves hung though, swarthy or otherwise.

Islamic jurisprudence offers some interesting perspectives on rape.

Ruling on the crime of rape
After going through the reasons for rape, such as wearing immodest clothing and travelling without a male guardian [ mahram ] *, the act is strongly condemned.

*The punishment for rape in Islam is same as the punishment for zina, which is stoning if the perpetrator is married, and one hundred lashes and banishment for one year if he is not married. *

Or a judge may choose from:

“The recompense of those who wage war against Allaah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter”

  • Ideally an adult, ‘but the majority of scholars are of the view that if the mahram is a boy who has reached the age of discernment and is close to puberty, and the woman feels safe when he is with her, then that is sufficient

Who is the mahram with whom a woman can travel and who can act as a “chaperone” to prevent khulwah between a man and woman who are not related to one another?