He already has a standing lunch date with an unattached woman that is wife is unaware of?
He has instigated email communications with an ex that his wife does not know about and would be uncomfortable if she found out?
He’s meeting his ex for lunch in another town without his wife knowing?
Was it Jimmy Carter that said if you sin in your heart?
Anyway, I’m recovering from an emotional affair and I gotta tell you sir, you are heading down the path. Had I realized how emotionally vulnerable I was beforehand, I wouldn’t have gotten into the mess I got into.
So here is some headlights.
You are on the road to cheating. The detour is your wife.
Look up emotional infidelity. If you ask me, I cheated on my husband the FIRST time I looked outside my marriage for support I wasn’t getting within my marriage. The first time I didn’t tell the whole truth. The first time.
I wish I had fought for the things I needed and hadn’t found them so easily from someone I wasn’t married to. I lost my husbands faith and I lost a friend.
@ the OP: it seems to me that the issue you’re having here is a trust issue. I’ll agree with the sentiment (regardless of the semantics some people wish to argue) that “cheating” is more involved with the deception of the involved party (spouse or otherwise)… if you feel the need to confess that you’re having lunch with a member of the opposite gender the problem may be either a) your spouse is overly controlling or jealous or b) you feel like the connection you have with these people is improper for some reason, and on that note you’re looking for validation from us to continue what you think is improper. Simply BRING IT UP with the wife and see what she says.
Marriage, in my opinion isn’t a compromise in which both people lose something, it’s a union in which neither party feels that they are sacrificing anything by being with the other person, it’s the nature of and end result of LOVE, a prerequisite to marriage. You’re treating marriage like some sort of default position people end up being forced in to, IMO that’s one of the leading causes of the divorce rate, people feeling like they “have” to get married, which is a silly position to hold
I would argue that unhappy marriages and relationships in general result from a lack of trust on the part of either party; note above the perfectly trusting and very happy relationships of WhyNot and Shawn. Not to say by any means that there aren’t any other sources of strain, but to make a commitment like marriage would seem outright foolhardy to me if you didn’t have complete trust in the person you commit to.
It’s definitely a matter of word choice. If people had used a different word (like “deception” or even “betrayal”) I would not have objected. The use of “cheating” is inappropriate because it implies (to most people, perhaps not to you) something different.
It is a separate question as to the importance of truth or trust or not keeping secrets. These are certainly important qualities and I agree with the fact you hold them in high regard.
In most cases people lie or hide things because they are afraid of getting into trouble. Everybody talks about how you should be open and honest, but the fact is that if you are honest with somebody and they proceed to jump down your throat, you aren’t likely to be so honest next time. If people really want an honest relationship, probably the best approach is to be non-judgemental. In both your cases you seem to be wonderfully non-judgemental, particularly in respect to your spouses having relationships with other people. So I have great respect for both of you. Given this, it makes sense that if your spouse did lie to you it would imply that something was terribly wrong, so you would be right to be very upset.
While I would not like it my wife lied to me, I have to say that it isn’t my top priority. Of course it would depend on what she lied about. If she lied regularly, that would certainly mean big trouble. Fortunately that has not been a problem for either of us. What tend to upset me the most is disrespect - mainly if she preaches to me as if she were the moral authority and I was a child. She does that rarely enough for it not to be a problem. I do things that upset her sometimes (that’s when she preaches to me :rolleyes: ) but I couldn’t point to a particular hot issue.
There are lots of other things that can hurt a relationship besides dishonesty. Money is a notorious reason for people breaking up. For many people infidelity would be, with or without honesty. Drinking, drug abuse, and various forms of abusive behavior certainly have ruined lots of relationships. Honesty is big, but I’m not sure it ought to be the ultimate issue.
I think the bottom line for good relationships is actually caring about the happiness of your partner. If you put their happiness on a par with your own, there shouldn’t be many other problems.
No, we didn’t change any of the language, and I think I regarded it as as much of a permanent commitment as anybody else does. I had, and still have, every intention of staying married. But I’m a person who likes to question the assumptions that everybody else takes for granted, and I feel that the common assumptions about marriage tend to result in a lot more grief than they do happiness.
Indeed. You don’t live with them, right? So you don’t really know their lives.
And people choose to marry for companionship, love, and mutual enjoyment. What part of that don’t you get?
In a decent marriage, nobody ‘tells’ anybody anything else. People negotiate and agree. And, believe it or not, when you really love someone and enjoy that person’s company, staying home with that person can be immensely more enjoyable than a game of golf or a night out at a bar. But it’s sounding like you’ve never really loved someone.
Well it falls short, I suppose, if you’re so desperate to have every single thing you want exactly the way you want it that any obstacle throws you into a snit. Not everyone is so deeply invested in desires.
The other thing is that one generally endeavours to marry someone with similar interests, values, etc. such that one’s entire life doesn’t consist in head-butting with a person who is utterly unlike oneself and with whom one has nothing in common. And I will grant you that probably too many people get married out of their imagining that what they call ‘romance’ is sufficient to keep a couple living together. It is not.
The kind of fellow I like is pretty rare, unfortunately.
Did you read what RickJay wrote about those parties?
Hm. Somebody else calls you ‘asinine’ but I’m the one with the ‘hostile tone’? If you didn’t know I was female, I bet your answer would’ve been different. And there are several fellows who’d have me if I’d have them. I’m a lovely person.
I’m new here, but I couldn’t resist replying to this one.
Infidelity is one of those things that you can’t really fathom until you are in the middle of it…like being in a natural disater or acquiring a terminal illness. It means nothing that your parents did it, your sister did it, or Sally in the next office did it. You can read all of the books you want, it doesn’t matter. You can be married for 1 year or 40…doesn’t matter. Until you are a betrayed spouse, you can’t know what infidelity will do to you. You think you know how you would react if you were cheated on? You don’t until it happens. I’m living the nightmare right now.
Regarding the OP:
You’ve already started an emotional affair. By having lunch with her, you have already taken multiple steps towards a physical affair.
If your spouse loves you, cheating on her will absolutely rip her heart out. She will be permanently changed, as will the way she sees you. She will likely need therapy, and possibly meds to help her cope with the shock and the depression. That’s BEFORE she decides to either work on reconciliation or end the marriage. I don’t know if you have children, but if you do, they will suffer.
You may not care, but your old friend’s husband and any children that they have will suffer as well.
Think long and hard about what you do, and if it’s worth it.
to me that’s much more damning than a physical affair. I recently had a conversation with a girl I really like about the nature of cheating and forgiveness. I said that if she went to a party one night when I wasn’t around, got really drunk, and had sex with a random guy, I’d be far less pissed than if she was thinking of somebody else while eating dinner, going out, or having sex with me. The idea isn’t really where you’re penis is, it’s where your MIND is in marriage and a good relationship. You aren’t with them for the physical benefits of commitments, I can get laid when I’m single, you commit to the emotional attachments you have.
Maybe. Or maybe I think that having no other interests other than being with someone is a bit unhealthy. Even when you love someone, you still need to develop other social relationships. People who are married still have friends and hobbies. Think about your family growing up. You may love them but you don’t want to spend every second of the day with them.
Well, it’s not my bachelor party.
As I said, I know his wife and she is very bossy and controlling when it comes to that kind of stuff. The fact that has to walk on eggshells around her about the topic of HIS OWN bachelor party seems ridiculous to me.
I’ve never really understood the part of American culture about bachelor parties, myself. Don’t you have all the time in the world before hooking up, moving and marrying to eat lollipops out of a stripper’s cooch?
But more to the point, if his bachelor party is over and done with, why must he bring it up incessantly anyway? I somewhat sympathise with his wife if all he wants to do is talk about how he licked beer off someone else’s boobs, though I must admit I do not understand the point of getting married after feeling that one’s partner has outright violated sexual boundaries and then making them miserable for it. As long as she has her own proper job she should have just chucked him for the bachelor party that upset her so much.
what you think I told her that just for the hell of it? Who are you to presume that I would go out of my way to make up a bullshit story for the board for the benefit of… what exactly?
that you can’t handle somebody actually thinking that way? That seems like a unwarranted attack on my character…
Is there a debate somewhere in this mess? Or is this just a bunch of people posting that other people are wrong, that they don’t believe the testimony of people with whom they disagree, and that people who do not share their mindsets are doodyheads?
If anyone thinks they have a logical contribution to make, (preferably supported by actual logic or evidence), then get it in, quick, before this trainwreck gets hauled to the scrapheap.
I just find it hard to believe that you wouldn’t get at least as upset if she was sleeping with some other guy.
That’s not really the point. It’s kind of a last chance to cut loose with the guys. Once you’re married, it’s pretty much a given that you’re not going to be hanging out like you used to. So it’s kind of like a final “farewell to bachelorhood” party
Most bachelor paries are fairly harmless - falling somewhere between a celibate trip with your best friend to wine country and figuring out where to bury a dead underage hooker in the desert. It’s more the illusion of cheating than actual cheating. Some drinking. A few lapdances from a stripper. Maybe a nice dinner out with the guys.
Now there are some guys who view it as their last chance to hook up with another woman before marriage. I don’t really agree with that philosophy.
He doesn’t. But apparently the Mrs is still really angry that he even had one.
“far less” I’d still be plenty pissed. Perhaps I overemphasized, but I definately didn’t say I wouldn’t be pissed
I think the original bachelor party debate was about going to somebody else’s bachelor party not his own. (I may have missed the change in bachelor party topic though) I think that’s overly protective and silly of, well, yes a silly tradition, but an accepted tradition nonetheless. For that matter it’d be just as overprotective and silly to prevent somebody from having their own bachelor party
With all due respect, not sure exactly what sort of either you’d find in a discussion about relationships. I suppose one might think one person’s points are more sensible than another’s, but really this isn’t the kind of subject that lends itself to scholarly cites. Looks more to me like an IMHO (or IMNVHO ).
It is possible to create an actual debate in which one establishes the definitions of relationships and inspects the ethics of acting inside or outside those relationships, with or without the consent of both parties in the context of either a contractual or moral view of those relationships.
Of course, such a discussion is a bit more difficult to pursue when the thread is filled with “YOU DID WHAT??” and “THAT’S DUMB!” type comments.
Me again…little background. Got married at 21, right out of school. Grad in May, married in August. I cannot have kids, wife and I seem to be OK w/ that…but personally I’m a control freak and I don’t like that we were not able to make the decision for ourselves.
15 years into marriage, can you blame me for having different needs/wants/etc than I did when I first signed up? People change, vows are important to me, but in a perfect world, they would probably be updated and tweaked every couple years.
My biggest problem is that I’m hearing from others who are writing in, is that I’m not allowed to make an emotional connection with a member of the opposite sex for the rest of my life, and if I do, I’m somehow cheating. I can never be close to another female human being other than my wife for the rest of my life. And I’m not even supposed to want to, at least in the ideals of marriage. I’ll say it again, I made this decision at 21. What decisions did you make at that age that you kept up…I think I’ve done pretty good.
I forgot who wrote it, but someone said that I should at least have the chance to see her and determine for myself. The writer went on to say, that if I didn’t see her, then I’d be thinking about (and romanticizing) a missed opportunity for the rest of my life. If I did see her, at least it would be possible that this topic would be laid to rest once and for all.
One thing I mentioned to my old friend, is that reconnecting assures me that I indeed had a life prior to my marriage. I continually shock myself how little I remember about myself and my life pre-marriage.
Would I have a problem if my wife had a life outside of and beyond our marriage? Absolutely not, I expect her to live her life to it’s fullest and I’m aware enough to understand that I cannot be everything that she needs 100% of the time, thru every up and down. Different people have different strengths and weaknesses, if I’m weak in a certain area that she needs…I fully expect her to find other ways to be fulfilled. It would not occur to me to ask her to do without.
In the context that this really is more advice for the lovelorn than a philosophical exploration of cheating, I am going to send this over to IMHO (where I hope you people behave yourselves so that the Mods there don’t have to shut it down).
I’ve seen these types of threads many times on other boards. People in this situation respond one of two ways. Either they answer all the people telling them that they’re playing with fire by saying :smack: ‘what was I thinking? I want my marriage to go on so of course I won’t pursue this foolish path.’
Or they’ll come up with a whole load of rationalizations for why they should not ‘deprive themselves of a life outside marriage’ or some variation thereof. That’s because they’re trying, per the thread title, to fool themselves and/or everyone else.
No. Let’s try this again, slowly. Many, many, many affairs happen because people of opposite genders think they can remain ‘just friends’ although it should be clear to them that using words like ‘confess’ and hiding their visits with these ‘just a friends’ are not the actions of people being honourable and trying to avoid affairs.
It is not that having lunch with her constitutes ‘cheating’, although clearly you feel it is because you wouldn’t have to hide it otherwise; however it is that if you continue on this road to building an ‘emotional connection with a member of the opposite sex’ you will almost certainly continue building it until it’s a road to the destruction of your marriage.
Don’t be disingenuous. There is a vast gulf between ‘a life outside of and beyond marriage’ and ‘lying to your partner about seeing a person of the opposite gender’.
Try this on for size; what if your wife were seeing an ex-bf behind your back?
It was. He’s not allowed to go to a mutal friends bachelor party. He was barely allowed to have his own.
That’s the fundamental problem with marriage, especially at a young age. Your wife is supposed to be the person you share the strongest emotional bond with. You can have friends who are women, but at what point are they filling an emotional need that should be filled by your wife?
And that’s how cheating starts. Most mature guys don’t say “I want to bang chicks behind my wifes back”. They get bored and complacent in the routine of their marriage. All of a suddent, they meet a girl they click with and a friendship is formed. It all seems new and exciting because it IS new. Your marriage stars to feel like tedium and monotony compared to this new person who “maybe is the REAL one”. I think you know where I’m going with this.
The joke, of course, is that in 5, 10, 15 years, this new relationship will seem just as dull and stale as the current one.
Then you’re hearing what you want to hear, not what people are saying. Most of us, to some degree or another, keep repeating that it’s the deception, the idea that you think your wife shouldn’t know about it, or that you have something to “confess” that raises a red flag.
If you want to have emotional connections with this woman, fine! Just tell your wife. If she’s fine with it, then great, that’s the end of it. If she’s not fine with it, then you have to decide whether you’re willing to compromise to make the marriage work or not.
And “compromise” doesn’t mean you have to give her her way. It may mean you agree to introduce her to your ex first, or she wants you to see her and her husband as a couple with you and your wife, or it may mean she wants you to see her only for lunch, or only on weekdays. It doesn’t matter what compromise you reach - you can make your own rules.
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