What is chi, and what am I feeling when I move it?

I am putting this in GQ, but if deemed it better being in GD, then by all means move it.

I have recently started taking Tai-Chi Chuan at the local JC here. During class, we practice feeling and moving chi. Some days, I can feel chi so well, that it feels like my hands are dragging through mud, and when practicing with a partner, it feels like they are tapping on my palms from six feet away. Other days, I can barely feel it at all.

Keep in mind, that while having a scientific approach to things, I have in the past messed around with new agey things and have felt chi before.

What am I feeling? The reason I am asking is because even though there seems to be nothing measurable between the other person and me, something is still causing my nerves to react.

So again, is what is chi, and what am I feeling when moving it?

I am going to try to be nice here, and not insult you, however please understand that it is very hard for me.

“Chi” has never been proved to exist, or measured in any way. There have been several threads recently on telepathy or auras or other things that are simply bunk. This is yet another example.

Why do you feel that way? Sometimes you may feel tired, thus feeling the resistance, or conversely you might be really “on the ball” that day and just perceive everything as being slower. The sensation of tapping palms could be anything, your mind making things up, your heartbeat, or something else that is not “Chi”.

I’ve felt this too when doing Tai Chi. It’s bizarre. I think it’s a figment of my imagination, but it’s damn hard to dismiss it.

Just because you cant explain the things you feel does not mean that they cant be explained at all. It just means it cant be explained now or yet.

I am one of the most logically minded people I know, and I have felt chi. Can I give you a textbook definition or logical answer? No…but isnt the whole point of human logic to understand the human experience?

Trust your experiences and do your best to apply logic, but remember, there are many more things that we do not know than things we do know.

Oh, and that stuff your feeling, its Chi :slight_smile:

I don’t believe in much, but I’ve been chi-ed onto my ass and have felt distinctly different effects from different people exerting it over me. I’ve seen people walk in saying “what is this crap, you just psyched him out” and go home “believers.” Maybe there’s a psychological explanation, but if so it would be almost as interesting a phenomenon as chi, considering the extremes of the effects I’ve seen on people I know to be level-headed. I think the first guy I ever heard any extraordinary claims about chi from is one of the most logical, non-new-age-hippie-crap guys I know.

How could you possibly know that?

So for you folks who’ve actually felt chi or qi or whatever, all you have to do is design an experiment where you can show that you feel it - like maybe feeling it when you can’t see or hear the person dealing it - and collect your million dollars from Randi. You don’t have to explain it, just show that you can feel it. By the way, no one has ever done this before, but if you think you can do this, go for it!

That’s why I think I’m imagining it, CurtC. But it does feel very physically real at the time.

har har

I have studied a number of martial arts and had the opportunity to work with a lot of very good people and a few bonafide masters. I have felt the effects of chi, been tossed across the room by tiny old men, etc. In every case, it was clearly a result of great skill, subtle technique, and body mechanics. It is not some mystical force, but a result of performing martial arts techniques in a very precise way.

I have worked with several Chinese masters who would explain techniques and results in terms of chi. However, in every case when they were questioned further, they would explain and demonstrate in terms of pure physical mechanics. They are not being disingenuous. The concept of chi is a valuable training excercise for the visualization of technique and learning the subtle processes of tension and relaxation in the body. The visualization of chi flowing is very valuable to many martial arts and is exactly analogous to the kinds of training visualizations done by many other kinds of athletes. However, it is a just a training tool, not a mystical force.

One of my Chinese sifus was rather amused by my trying to make a distinction and pin down exactly what he meant, telling me yet again that I think too much and train too little. He would explain techniques in terms of chi flowing around the body and would often pause in the middle of a technique to question the student about where the force was in their body. What he was going for was which parts of the body were in tension and which were relaxed, how the stance was rooted, etc., all the subtle little details that make a technique effective. When we talked about projections of chi between opponents, we were really talking about being extraordinarily aware of your opponent’s intention. When I would “feel the chi” of a sparring opponent, I was really making subconscious judgements about his stance, attention, etc. to predict his moves and react accordingly. In may cases, I would simply “know” where my opponent was going and react preemptively, without conscious thought, but this was nothing mystical either, simply awareness and knowledge of technique.

In short, I believe chi is a convenient fiction which masters use to help students learn and it’s intended that you come to the realizations of what’s really at work on your own. I think “masters” who really believe in chi are often charlatans who never went far enough in their training. They’re like children who still believe in Santa Claus and think babies are brought by storks.

Not to mention that when you scientifically test people who claim to be able to feel another person’s chi, they fail miserably. And so, you have these true believers who claim chi is real, and they can feel it in others (even at a distance and through clothing), but when you put a person behind a screen, these chi-sensitive people can’t even get right whether the person is behind the screen or not.

So basically, they were deluding themselves (or us) about feeling chi.

Peace.

I kanda figured that when tested under observation, they fail miserably. I have no doubt about it. But I still feel something. My nerves are definitely reacting to something.

Could it be capillary dilation and contraction, or some other change in blood pressure?

I heard chi defined like this:

“Chi is your awareness of chi.”

It’s a functional definition for most uses of the word.

I do believe that it is used to describe different things at times. In another example chi is more akin to the word spirit, as in a spirited horse or spirited child. They give off lots of energy, ( kinetic energy, sound energy, etc).