december, as with the rest of us, is not banned yet because, quite simply, he has not been banned yet.
Occam’s Safety Razor at work (now with 33% less carnage!).
I’m wondering how many of the “Ban December” brigade would also call for the banning of Reeder. I wouldn’t call for either to be banned, but I’d have to put Reeder much higher on the list than December. Both are serial-thread-starters, but at least December does more than post a link and say “Bush is Evil”.
Why don’t you guys just stay out of his threads? I’m amazed at how many posts December gets in some of his threads.
I think that latest thread of his certainly qualifies.
Where do I sign?
Two words: morbid curiousity.
“Oh, another december train wreck – wonder what lunatic deranged propaganda he dredged up this time?”
Same reason Phaedrus, JDT, WB, Serlin and bj0rn got so many views/replies: “I wonder what this idjit is going to say next.” And then the burning desire to correct stuff, even though most of us know by now that anything december sticks between his ears stays there as if it were composed entirely of Krazy Glue. It’s pointless, but you just gotta try.
I agree. He’s polite.
Psychotic, deranged, but polite.
Wouldn’t a SDMB without December be like MAS*H without Frank Burns, or The Mary Tyler Moore Show without Ted Baxter, or Cheers without Cliff Claven? You get the idea…
A Family Matters without Urkel, even…
Ah, a december Pit thread. Yep. It’s Thursday.
Burns was on the show for 5 years. I guess that means december will be leaving us around March of next year.
FWIW, I actually preferred Winchester to Burns. Burns was easier to mock, yes, but Winchester put up much more of a fight, had a less one-dimensional character, etc.
Ooohhh, a MAS*H highjack. I think what’s-his-name (Stiers?) who played Winchester is a talented actor, but the show sucked donkey balls after Frank left; not necessarily because of Winchester, but because of a general decline in writing, lack of funny ideas, and too much political correctness.
The day December gets banned simply for posting political material that you guys don’t agree with or that you think is stupid or inflammatory is the day I take a walk out of here as well, for that truly would be censorship of ideas.
I read the same sites December does. I recognize most of his arguments. They are views shared by a widespread spectrum of Americans, whether you like it or not. You can find Decembers opinions over at National Review Online, or on Instapundit, or FreeRepublic, or any number of other widely read conservative web sites. You may think they are all nuts, but they are well within the range of acceptable political debate.
The fact is, the SDMB population these days is WAY over on the left. In a country where 60% of the people approve of George Bush, there’s maybe 1 poster in 20 on this board who do. It’s largely made up of people that hate Bush with a passion. You guys spout conspiracy theories and leftist agitprop all the time, and you see it as ‘rational’. December posts equivalent material from a right-of-center standpoint, and you guys think it’s a banning offense, or at least something worthy of the gross amounts of personal abuse you heap on the man.
If December were posting over at FreeRepublic, his posts would be received by choruses of “Right on!”. They are valid viewpoints that are at least worthy of debate.
If anything, the mods should be getting on some of the serial December abusers around here. The man can’t post the time of day without receiving a cacaphony of insults and pittings.
I don’t agree with a lot of what December posts. But then, the stuff I see posted on the left side of the spectrum (and by posters a lot more respected than Reeder - elucidator for example) are, from my perspective, crazier than most of the stuff December says. And often far more offensive. And unlike many of you, December stays unfailingly polite, even in the face of obnoxious insults.
Calls for banning of December are way, way out of line. If you don’t like his arguments, debate them. If they frustrate you because he posts numerous cites and forces you to do the same to refute them, then tough shit.
I think you’re missing the point, Sam. It’s not the fact that december is extremely right-of-center; it’s that his debating “style” is so obnoxious, spurious, vile, insulting, devious, backhanded, etc.etc…
There are many right-wing/conservative posters here, and none receives the bashing december does week in and week out. Why is that?
Here’s a thought – if someone were to post on those conservative forums left-of-center, and in the same manner as december, how long would they last there?
But if you truly believe that december’s last OP was appropriate for these boards, then why don’t you head over there and defend it?
I disagree with much of what december posts, but from what I’ve seen of his posts, I agree with Sam Stone that what december says is well within the range of acceptable political debate.
I suppose one might suspect december of deliberately stirring the waters, so to speak. But based on what I’ve seen, it seems more likely that he simply feels passionately about these subjects and is sharing his views.
I disagreed with the frequent calls for Coll’s banning. For the same reasons, I disagree with the calls for December’s banning.
Some people will post things that offend you. It happens, and it’s not pleasant, but it’s an integral part of a board that’s supposed to provoke debate and thought. The division between “challenging hypothesis” and “offensive trolling” is often a rather blurry one. Why don’t we leave the mods to decide where the line is drawn?
Leander
Few debators do NOT say that about their opponents. December is one who does not.
Hardly. I’d say there were few debaters here who act in that manner. And even fewer who do so and manage to remain. december is certainly one.
I’m actually quite surprised that you think that most people have this opinion. What an unpleasant view of debating you must have.
Actually Lib, I argue with you all the time and don’t find your style obnoxious. I can name a load of people on this board who manage to argue a point I disagree with strongly who do so without being obnoxious.
But December really can be a vile and insulting poster, despite his noted avoidance of swearing or namecalling. He merely insinuates that your nation is racist, or that you support terrorism, or any of a number of smears. He’s insulting in a politician’s manner - no name calling, just insuation and smear tactics.
I think that’s why he raises so many hackles. I can agree to an extent - I’d much rather someone called me a fucking idiot than insinuated I was bigotted, a terrorist apologist, etc.
While I can see how December can be infuriating, it has always seemed to me that the responses to his posts are worse than his posts are. He seems to be a person with strong opinions, and those opinions offend a lot of people, but I’ve seen jerkier posters, more obnoxious posters and certainly less friendly posters out there. I think the mods moved December’s last thread because the replies to it would never fit in GD, not the OP, which, while inflammatory, wasn’t inappropriate.
Just my opinion, of course. I think if you banned December, a precedent could be set for banning a lot of others as well.
December, polite? Is this the same guy who in GD claimed that he wouldn’t be surprised if London_Calling put up a mural celebrating the attacks on 9/11.
He’s not polite.
Sam:
I seem to be responding to your posts an awful lot lately. Hope you don’t think I’m stalking you or anything.
Yeah, me too.
However, I don’t think it’s his ideas, per se, that lead so many posters to react to december. It’s the sense that his presence diminishes the quality of the discourse here. On a board ostensibly dedicated to the elimination of ignorance, posters like Colluonsbury get banned because they use a little obscenity in the wrong forum, while december spreads right-wing agit-prop like manure on a wheat field, and is seemingly untouchable. There’s something about it that just seems contrary to the spirit of the board, and that a lot of people react to – quite legitimately, IMHO.
Fact is, december has learned how to be offensive without breaking the formal rules of the SDMB. Much like the current administration’s “not-lies” about Iraq, december is a “not-jerk.”
But I agree with you, at least in part, and I wouldn’t want him banned, myself. He’s a direct conduit into the loony right, and reading him helps keep me up-to-date on the latest developments in that little ideological corner of the political globe. But it’s a mistake to take him seriously, or to labor under the illusion that reasoned, well-supported debate will change his mind.
Yeah, that doesn’t surprise me.
You guys should quit reading that stuff. It has a bad influence on you.
First off, the fact that such opinions are held by large numbers of Americans does not make them any more legitimate, or any less offensive. Secondly, while they might be within “the range of acceptable debate,” the problem is that december doesn’t debate them.
See, now you’re doing it again, Sam. Who are “you guys,” what “conspiracy theories/ leftist agitprop” do they “spout,” and who sees it as rational?
While a nice rhetorical trick, it is honestly tiresome to see you try to take the high-road like this again and again. You haven’t cornered the market on rationality, Sam, and many others who post here are as rational as you, arguably more so. I can back that statement up with examples if you so wish.
I would be interested to see examples of posts from the “left side of the spectrum” that are crazier or more offensive that the stuff december posts. Since you’ve used the word “often,” I’d like a few examples, please.
Indeed, that is precisely how he gets away with being so obnoxious.
The frustration stems more, I think, for the fact that he posts references to unreliable, crappy sources – like blogs – and then simply refuses to admit it when his sources are discredited and his arguments refuted.
On the other hand, I strongly agree with you on this point: regardless of how stupid, offensive, ill-informed, prejudicial, or false december’s posts might be, it would be wrong to ban him on the basis of his opinions. It’s very important, for the sake of this board, that a plurality of views be available; in fact, I would argue that december has been an invaluable ally of the left, by visibly demonstrating the moral and intellectual bankruptcy of the radical right.
Thanks, december!