What is existentialism?

Great Debates
21

No. If anything, existentialism is the cure for nihilism. The universe is meaningless, so make your own meaning.

“Seeing the world as it is” isn’t a statement about perception or phenomenology, it’s a statement about teleology.

You really can’t answer any claim made by existentialism with “But…Science!”. They’re not remotely looking at the same questions. If anything, science adds weight to existentialism.

I disagree. Strongly. I’m not discounting outside influences, they are very much a big factor in becoming, but you’re nearly completely discounting any internal life to us. And that’s self-evidently not true to me. I’m assuming the same is true of everyone. P-zombies don’t exist.

I don’t think psychology postulates that we are pure automatons only driven by outside influences. At least, not that I know of.

Leaving aside the epistemology of it all - you think existentialism is comforting? The philosophy where the words angst, anguish, dread, anxiety, despair and crisis are commonplace? That notes the absurdity of the search for meaning?

22

That’s, if you’ll pardon the technical term, bullshit. You’re confusing teleology with semantics. When existentialism says “life is inherently meaningless”, it is in the former sense, not the latter.

23

Gotta respectfully disagree with you on this. You’re stating things have no meaning unless that meaning is universal. However, I believe we all create our own mythos, some of which we share, and some of which is private. Not only that, but we may borrow from many different world views in creating our own. As well, if a person chooses to live in isolation in a cabin on a mountain, with no contact with others, can you honestly say that the ideas and values governing the person’s life have no meaning, simply by virtue of the fact that there is no one around to share those ideas and values with? I must disagree with your assertion that subjective meaning is the same as having no meaning. Some meanings are certainly not popular enough to be recorded in history books, but they are meanings nonetheless.
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24

Or put another way, the answer is 42.
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25

It is a comforting lie, because the alternative is having no framework.

And yes humans are entirely made up of everything around them. Any idea that we make ourselves just creates the illusion of free will. The thing is that such influences are subtle so you don’t notice them. You just believe you have choice. The so called internal world is just an amalgam of our past influences.

Existentialism from what I have gathered thus far assumes humans have freedom of choice (which they don’t). So it inherently falls flat trying to create an answer to how to live. You have no choice where you are born, who raises you, or what ideas you are first given. A lot of what affects us isn’t by our choice, it’s merely the illusion of choice. Subconsciously your mind is already made up.

Psychology does in fact prove that choice is more of an illusion than anything you have control over.

26

If there is no one around the his ideas and values have no worth. Worth is based on the judgments of others, which is why the more widely held something is (getting closer to universal) the more value it has. Meaning and value to just one is the same as nothing.

27

You’re arguing that we can clearly see that we can’t clearly see the world as it is?

28

Since the OP is interested not merely in the definition of existentialism, but debating it, let’s move this to Great Debates.

Colibri
General Questions Moderator

29

You’ve certainly gone from “What is existentialism?” to “Here’s everything I think is wrong about existentialism” rather quickly.

30

So nothing has meaning or value on a deserted island? Water, shelter, food have no meaning or value?

31

See, you’re just sort of asserting that ideas and values have no worth if no one else is around; you’re just saying that meaning and value to one is the same as nothing.

And unless I missed something, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.

Where did you find this information? Was it revealed to you by a sage, or an angel? Did it come to you in a dream? Is it inscribed as letters of living lightning?

32

$10 says some crank site with the words “forbidden” and/or “Truth” in the url.

33

Does it even matter? Why should you care?

34

“Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching- even when doing the wrong thing is legal.”

– Aldo Leopold (1887-1948)

35

Yes, of course life is meaningless. What meaning does it have? God gave it meaning? Obvious nonsense, even if God existed how could he give our lives meaning? I mean, suppose God exists, and he looked at Adam and Eve and proclaimed that the meaning of their lives was to be fruitful and multiply and whatever.

How would that make their lives meaningful? Oh, they’re pleasing God. So the fuck what? Who cares whether you please God? I mean, God would, but who died and made him boss? Just because God tells you that serving him is what gives your life meaning, that doesn’t make it true, even if God can manipulate the objective ethical fabric of the universe to make it true. It’s only true because he made it true. OK, so pleasing God isn’t good in and of itself, so we should please God because we’d be better off if we pleased God? He’ll reward us if we please him, and punish us if we don’t?

Well, again, who made him boss? It’s only meaningful if we as human beings want to avoid the pain of God’s punishments and want to experience the joys of God’s rewards. And why do we want that? Because God made us that way.

It’s all meaningless. Spending an eternity in Heavenly bliss is meaningless. Spending an eternity suffering in Hell is meaningless. Except by human values. Don’t get me wrong, if I really beleived God would punish me I’d do what I could to avoid that punishment, but that’s only because I’m the sort of being that doesn’t like pain. The pain itself would be bad, but it wouldn’t mean anything.

It’s all meaningless. So then nihilism and despair? No, unless you want to despair, I guess. What’s the point of despair? You found out human life is meaningless and the universe is pointless, and so you despair? If it really is true that your life has no meaning, then your despair has no meaning. Only despair if you want to. You don’t have to, unless you somehow thing that you’re obligated to despair. But you aren’t, because, get this, you aren’t obligated to do anything, not even take another breath.

The only thing is, you’re a tiny little creature in a great big universe. You can do anything you want, but you can’t control the consequences of your actions. Hurt other people and they’ll get angry and hurt you back. Be an unreasonable jerk and people will hate you. Yes, their hatred is meaningless, but the fact is that you’re a human being. And if you’re a normal human and not a sociopath you won’t enjoy life without the love and companionship of other human beings. If you don’t care about enjoying your life then do what you want and die miserable and alone, and it won’t mean a thing.

Or you could try being nice to people for a change, and see what happens. Not that you’ll rack up points in heaven or karma points, because those things don’t exist. What exists is cause and effect. If you believe that you’re an automaton without free will who can only hurt other people, and you act on that belief, then you’ve made yourself miserable for no reason. Even if you really are an automaton, so what? Even if you aren’t really “choosing” not to be an asshole, what’s the point of being an asshole? Because the other automatons around you aren’t going to act as if you didn’t have a choice, they’re going to react to what you do, and so you better be prepared for that.

Life is meaningless. The meaninglessness of life is meaningless. Do whatever you want, but if you’re consistently an asshole you’re going to suffer in this life. And your suffering won’t mean a thing to anyone except you, and maybe not even then. So what? Either enjoy life or don’t but whining that other people are enjoying life when they should be suffering from existential angst is silly.

36

So why did you take the trouble to type all of that?

37

So how then are you defining “meaning” exactly? Because you keep using that word, but I don’t think it means what you think it means.
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38

So what is the right thing?

39

Something Republicans would approve of, naturally. Right?
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40

Does it bother anyone else that philosophical movements are products of their environment? I understand why it happens that way but if it does so, without exception, can any new philosophy ever hope to improve on explaining the nature of the human experience? New pop songs come out every year, have fans and change music and culture forever, but it’s not like everyone is attempting to distill the ‘perfect’ auditory experience.

I feel the same about economic theory.

In these fields is progress happening? If it is how can it be measured?