What is left in the still classified JFK assassination files?

Great Debates
161

Do you agree that people in this very thread have claimed that Ruby killed Oswald because he was upset with the JFK assassination?

If you agree that people have claimed that, here are some contradictory statements from people who knew Ruby

Schiem also noted several people who knew Ruby, who claimed that the patriotic statements Ruby professed were quite out of character. Harry Hall, Ruby’s partner in a gambling operation, told the FBI that “Ruby was the type who was interested in any way to make money” and also said that he “could not conceive of Ruby doing anything out of patriotism”.[72][58] Jack Kelly, who had known Ruby casually since 1943, “scoffed at the idea of a patriotic motive being involved by Ruby in the slaying of Oswald”, and reportedly stated that he “could not see Ruby” killing Oswald “out of patriotism” but “for publicity or … for money”.[58]

Jada, a stripper at Ruby’s club, in an interview with ABC’s Paul Good, remarked “I believe he [Ruby] disliked Bobby Kennedy”.[58]

Ruby’s friend, Paul Jones, told the FBI that “he doubted that he [Ruby] would have become emotionally upset and killed Oswald on the spur of the moment. He felt Ruby would have done it for money.”[58]

You can believe or not that these are true or that they contradict the “Ruby was upset” narrative. The fact is that not everything aligns well in the official narrative

162

You’re leaving out the parts of your own cite that say the exact opposite.

By “the official narrative”, of course, you mean the broad scholarly consensus based on 60 years of research, evidence, and testimony, which you are attempting to belittle by caricaturing it as “what THEY want you to think”.

163

One thing that I’ve never heard asked, let alone answered. If you’re a gunman shooting at a target would you prefer to shoot at a target advancing toward you or one receding away, given that the natural tendency of the driver of a vehicle taking fire would be to attempt to accelerate . Then why not shoot when the motorcade was proceeding up Houston street rather than waiting until it had turned and was driving away along Elm? One logical reason (albeit not the only one possible) would be to coordinate with a second shooter stationed elsewhere. Here’s a map to assist in visualizing what I’m talking about. The Grassy Knoll - JfK Assassination

164

It’s been asked, and answered, in this thread:

165

That, and the supposed “grassy knoll” was openly visible-you couldn’t hide Billy Barty with a slingshot there, let alone a sniper with a rifle.

166

Having seen friends and family members with mental illness during acute phases, I can testify that they can easily appear quite composed. “A nut or unstable or unreliable” does not necessarily mean foaming at the mouth.

167

Not necessarily clumsy,

168

The only way you could conclude that we’ll “never know” why Oswald shot Kennedy is to ignore Oswald’s entire life. He was a wannabe big shot, and an avowed Marxist. He was also a huge proponent of the Cuban revolution, which JFK was aggressively opposing. And, despite his lofty ideas, he was working a seasonal job at a warehouse, and couldn’t even afford to live with his wife and children, one of whom was only about a month old.

Ruby was a big dumb goof. He was also a nosy gossip. You can see him in news reporting within the police station once Oswald was arrested, because he was the kind of guy who wanted to be a part of the action. I’m sure he heard lots of people talking about wanting to kill that loser who shot the President, so when he managed to wander into the location where Oswald was being moved, he shot him. It was completely impulsive, which was how Ruby was known to behave.

I’ll remind you that this is the same man who was court martialed twice while in the Marines (once for “accidentally” shooting himself, which was suspicious because he did it when he was going to be transferred away from a place he didn’t want to leave). And when his visa to Russia expired, and they told him he had to leave, he managed to stay by attempting suicide.

169

I feel the evidence that Oswald was the lone killer and not part of any conspiracy is overwhelming.

If there is a conspiracy I feel there may have been a cover-up after the fact. Not of any government participation in the assassination but of a government failure to put together the clues before the assassination and realize Oswald was a suspicious character. Hoover was zealous in protecting the FBI’s image and wouldn’t have wanted people to see evidence that the FBI had screwed up.

170

The last highly official investigation was by the United States House Select Committee on Assassinations. They concluded there was a conspiracy, including a shooter on the grassy knoll.

I think that Jean Davidson, Gerald Posner, and Priscilla Johnson McMillan have a good idea of what happened and why. They have an anti-CT perspective. But it isn’t more official.

171

On the other hand, when he wanted to leave the Soviet Union, he didn’t have to threaten suicide to do so. They not only let him go, they allowed him to take not one, but two, Soviet citizens with him. I’ve always wondered about that, too.

172

Well, they allowed him to take his wife and infant daughter with him. Did the Soviets really want a 20 year old unmarried woman and an infant left there when Oswald went back to America. It wasn’t as though he took two KGB agents back with him.

No Offense E-DUB but you seem like several conspiracy theory friends of mine. You “wonder” about a lot of things, and when someone gives you an answer to that which you "wonder’ about, you ignore the answer and move onto another issue that you “wonder” about. You don’t seem to want to learn and reach a different conclusion. You just believe and no amount of information will change your mind.

173

Certainly glad you weren’t trying to offend. But as to the substance of what you said re: Marina and daughter. There was a case in the eighties where an American married a Russian woman and they had a devil of a time getting her out. (As it happened, I knew the guy.)

I’m not a typical conspiracist (if that’s a word) but I’ve never bought the official line on the JFK assassination.

The only other conspiracy theory that I bought into was that Gary Hart was set up, but that one proved to be more conspiracy and less theory.

174

I don’t believe the windshield is even close to being an issue 6 floors up.

175

Them. Here’s the Wiki on their conclusions.

On the Kennedy assassination, the HSCA concluded in its 1979 report that:

  1. Lee Harvey Oswald fired three shots at Kennedy. The second and third shots Oswald fired struck the President. The third shot he fired killed the President.
  2. Scientific acoustical evidence establishes a high probability that at least two gunmen fired at the President. Other scientific evidence does not preclude the possibility of two gunmen firing at the President. Scientific evidence negates some specific conspiracy allegations.
  3. The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that Kennedy was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy. The committee was unable to identify the other gunmen or the extent of the conspiracy.

1 is obvious.

2 is blithering idiocy that no investigation ever since has verified. It it as certain as Oswald’s shooting Kennedy that no such audio evidence exists.

3 is entirely based on 2. Even so, the Committee ruled out the Soviet Government, the Cuban Government, anti-Castro Cuban groups, organized crime, and the Secret Service, Federal Bureau of Investigation, and Central Intelligence Agency. So who’s left? Aliens?

176

It’s hard to engage with your question when you seem to have ignored two other US Presidents, both killed by lone nut jobs. I mean, just going off the probabilities, of the three successful POTUS assassinations apart from Kennedy, two were lone gunmen. The other did involve a conspiracy, and we know it because an investigation promptly uncovered evidence of the conspiracy.

Although now I wonder… were there conspiracy theories in the wake of Garfield and McKinley, who just refused to believe one lone gunman could take down a President?

ETA: A quick review of the wiki suggests there was an initial sense that McKinley’s assassination was part of a wider conspiracy of anarchists, but it’s unclear if that remained a popular alternative theory for long after.

177

Posner covered this issue. The audio recording of the unexplained gunshots were presented to the committee on the last day of the investigation. This prevented any in-depth checking of the recording. So they essentially took it as presented.

The recording of the gunshot was from a police radio. It was later found that the radio that broadcast the sound of the gunshot was not present at Dealey Plaza; it was in another part of the city. So whatever that gunshot was, it had nothing to do with Kennedy’s assassination.

178

The RAND Corporation, in conjunction with the saucer people, under the supervision of the reverse vampires.

179

I thought it was Cyberdyne Systems.

180

From what I’ve read over the years, making that claim almost certainly identifies you as the typical conspiracist.