There are many impeachment threads, and at least one of them have thousands of posts, so I would like to ask a (hopefully) simple question.
Can someone help me understand what Pelosi’s strategy is for holding on to the impeachment stuff and not sending it the Senate? I know she is not doing it for giggles, she has a strategy.
I know that Trump will not receive a “fair trial” in the Senate, but that is not going to change before the election, so why delay?
I have heard something about some kind of lawsuit, but that could take months and months.
you’re right–there have been a lot of impeachment threads .
So I’m going to go for the theory (which has been mentioned before, I’m sure) :
That Pelosi realized she made a mistake with the whole impeachment thing, and it has backfired badly.
It was necessary to start impeachment in order to calm down those 25% of Democratic supporters who suffer from Trump Derangement Syndrome, and go bananas whenever his name is mentioned.(i.e my family at Thanksgiving dinner )
Yes, Trump is a criminal. But impeachment is a not a criminal process…it’s a political process.And it simply has not worked; It hasn’t reduced Trump’s popularity.
It has become nothing more than a repeat of the earlier attempt: the sacred Mueller report, which Rachel Maddow promised us was going be the end of Trump, and also failed totally.
The only effect of the impeachment process so far is the opposite of what the Dems wanted.
Instead of focusing public attention on Trump’s crimes, it has focused the public on the Biden family’s crimes.
Right now, to the general public (i.e. people who don’t pay much attention)
if you mention the word “Ukraine”…they will think of both Trump and Biden as being equally involved in some sort of vague political games involving billions of dollars, and both of them are probably equally guilty.
A year ago, nobody even knew that Biden had a son; now they all know that he’s a spoiled rich kid making billions because his name is Biden.
And the more it gets into the news, the more the name Biden is going to look bad.
So now, the best interests of the Dems is to quietly stop talking about impeachment.
The trial in the senate will not get rid of Trump, but it will thrust Biden’s shenanigans into the public eye, and all of the attention will be negative.
So it’s best to avoid the trial altogether.And hope it fades from public awareness before the election.
I think that Pelosi is generally quite politically astute, but in this case I think she’s made a mistake. By holding onto the impeachment, she lets McConnell and Trump completely ignore it at no cost to either of them. Send it over. Yes, we know that the Senate is going to vote to acquit, but force them to get those votes on record. There are at least a few Senators for whom that will matter with their electorate.
I dunno, honestly… I seem to remember reading it someplace either here on on reddit, and thinking “hey, this theory seems logical.”
I doubt if it’s my original idea.
(But I do know that I’m right about my family’s Thanksgiving dinner. )
She’s doing exactly what she said she is doing. There is no benefit in letting them have a sham trial and get it over with quick, so let them stew. Going by Lisa Murkowski’s comment it is already paying dividends.
Not so much Pelosi’s strategy as Schumer’s. He has few cards to play in this battle save timing. Pelosi will transmit the articles when Schumer tells her the battlefield is most advantageous for their side, likely in the aftermath of a Trump outrage that might (but probably won’t) spark what little sense of shame the Senate majority still retains.
And some of those Senators will be up for re-election.
IMO, it comes down to strategic timing vis-a-vis the 2020 elections. If the House sends it to the Senate as soon as possible after 1/1/2020, the acquittal in the Senate will be old news before most primary elections. Is that a good thing or a bad thing for Democrats?
The way Trump and McConnell are pushing for the impeachment to get to the Senate, it seems that the GOP thinks doing so would hurt the Democratic Party. I have no idea if Pelosi agrees, but it seems now like maybe she doesn’t.
The opposite to chappachula’s theory is the one that says that Pelosi is playing this masterfully.
The impeachment has clearly made Trump even crazier than normal. He wants nothing more than to get the Senate to quickmarch the trial and totally vindicate him. Second only to that is wanting every single Republican in the Senate to swear fealty to his His Orangeness.
Neither can happen until Pelosi transmits the articles and trial managers. The delay allows all the commentators not on the right to go on and on about how much of a farce Mitch McConnell has made of the Constitution by declaring that the Senators who will be taking an oath of impartiality are pre-siding with the defense. According to 538, over 40% of so-called independents support Trump’s removal. Trampling the Constitution is not going to go over well with them. Pushback may force the few moderate Republicans to demand some semblance of fairness to leak through, as Susan Collins is already demonstrating.
That explains Pelosi’s moves. She is actually playing chess and looking several moves ahead, unlike Trump. She has only one stick to poke at Trump, so she’s wielding it. And obviously doing so well, given how loud the roars are.
Seems to me, McConnell and Trump are far more eager to have it get to the Senate than Pelosi or Schumer. Additionally, new evidence has been made public and McConnell has signaled that witness testimony is on the table (though I would not trust him farther than I can throw him). So the delay has not been a mistake in any way that I can see so far.
Pelosi has Trump by the short-and-curlys. McConnell is in a hurry to get this thing over with, but the longer she waits, the more info that may emerge, more pressure on Bolton and Mulaney to come forward and speak, and the more Republican Senators may start showing cracks in the Trump wall (e.g. Murkowski). For all we know there is some behind the scene dealings going on with more GOP Senators.
I agree with Elmer J. Fudd - they are saving their powder for when it will be most advantageous. It still will not likely amount to any difference in the outcome, but as stated, it seems to be a big distraction for Trump at the moment and keeping him from acting on his dangerous and impulsive thoughts.
The whole distract-o-sphere perpetrated by the right-wing pundits aimed at Biden is laughable anywhere outside Faux News. It amounts to “bu-bu-bu-bu-but, her emails!”
There’s a theory that McConnell doesn’t have all of the Republicans in lock-step; some are facing political pressure to actually consider the evidence and listen to witnesses. Regardless of the belief in how it should turn, a substantial majority of Americans want an actual trial.
So Pelosi is holding out for that to happen; she’s demanding that the Senate actually have the real players in this bit testify, instead of letting the Republicans get away with dismissing this as ‘second hand gossip’. And it’s effective because a handful of Republicans are saying, “We also want witnesses to testify so that we can have a real trial before we vote to acquit” because their constituents are not going to tolerate an exoneration without any consideration of the facts.
The problem, though, is that the people Trump has prevented from testifying will absolutely confirm the scandal, which McConnell can’t let happen. So, he’s in an impossible position, and Pelosi is taking advantage by forcing him to try to manage to agree to the ‘fair’ trial his caucus wants while preventing anything of substance from actually coming to light, such that Trump’s conduct becomes undeniable.
As you know, around the world there are many people tap-tap-tapping that particular propaganda, stating fictions as though they were facts, and hoping that people don’t notice.
Troublesome for all those industrious folks: the fact that there are no FBI (headed by a Trump appointee, and ultimately by Trump protector William Barr) or CIA (also headed by a Trump appointee) investigations into the supposedly-criminal Bidens. If Barr thought he could get away with announcing such investigations, of course he would have done so.
And those who are the target of the propaganda are bound to ask why Barr hasn’t done this, if there’s evidence of wrongdoing by a Biden.
I see a recent poll has support for removal has risen from 48% to 55%. That’s probably the strategy. Let more information continue to come out. Let the Republicans continue to support the criminal conman of a president. Either eventually even the Republicans will be forced to turn on Trump or it doesn’t matter anyway. If the latter, then they may as well keep getting under Trump’s skin.
In all matters in which you are in a bubble, that you really want to burst, it’s best to string it out as long as possible.
In this case the bubble is the unreality. Every thing that happens, by Pelosis actions certainly, serves to break the unreality we are living under and subject to.
Was mcconnel in reality when he promised to be biased, in lock step with the defendant, and to deliver the desired verdict? No. He found that out the next day.
He wanted it to be our reality. It’s not. Unless we let it. Every Murkowski, every tweet, every day can be another nail in that traitors coffin.
Has anyone here been in high stress contested situations, like job actions, greivances? If you have been you know that this is just what the potus needs over the christmas season. To let him skate into christmas at maralago by letting him off the hook would be a disgrace to the country.
The hype is that there is nothing to see, nothing can happen. They have a lot of us, some on here, saying it. Please stop. If you believe anything from mcconnel you are buying the hype.
It’s not a remote idea that the rebups just really really wanted to get the articles fast, to make sure donnie has a good christmas season and nothing bad happens for them, because of trumps transient anxieties and acting out.
They way they are hyping the “non event” of it it is a dead giveaway.
It might have been donnie on mitchs case. Mitch lost it on hannity by trying to please the potus.
No question in my mind donnie is miserable about not resolving these issues before his holiday, and it was him who was pushing. Even less question that Nancy knows this.
Right now at this moment, the potus is telling people to refuse to testify or obey lawful subpeonas.
Why do we need to analyze NPs actions when this is the case?
She is responding to a sui generis situation.
IOW once the potus stops obeying the law, you need to get harder in your approach, and start looking at the small print, like the timing, how the articles get transmitted, whether you are going to do the dude a favor by what you do, etc etc.
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