To anyone who examines the world, it becomes abundantly clear that there is no justice. One is not punished for doing bad things (if one is smart about it). Often, good people are set back because of their goodness and their lack of doing all they could have done - immoral, illegal, and wrong actions included - to advance. One either runs over people or is run over by people.
In this world where it seems there is no justice for the good or the bad, what incentive is there to be good or to avoid doing bad things?
You’re not seeming correctly.
Anecdotally, over the long run, people are inclined to do things to your benefit if you are proven (or, in some cases perceived) to be someone who is likely to act smilarly toward them.
It’s just that the “Bad Thing Happens to Good Person” headline sells more papers, that’s all.
Why be moral if a big sky daddy will not punish or reward us when we are dead? Here is my own answer:
You don’t know someone didn’t see you do that. If they had, you might be denounced for it at a later time. You don’t want to be denounced in public, do you? Also, a longer essay is at the following address: Common sense and good will towards others, as ends in themselves.
Well, it’s not just newspaper observation but observing the world around me.
My employers at my previous job engaged in lots of bad (even illegal) activities.
I have relatives left and right who have got their money through blatant corruption. (Is “have got” correct grammar or should it be “have gotten”?)
One uncle of mine is so honest. He refused so many opportunities to make lots and lots of money through bribes, kickbacks, etc. And then his son turns out to be one of the most corrupt men I have ever met. And his son got away with it.
Look at corporations, governments, politicians. People everywhere do bad things but don’t suffer for it.
And the whole people will help those who will help them bit ignores whether what is done is good or bad. Bad people can do favors for each other by bad deeds, and everything is all right.
Here’s the issue with that.
If I’m a traditionally moral person, and you help me out, you have a good degree of assurance that I will do the same to/for you, either unbidden or when you ask for my help.
If I’m the type of person who lives my life by backstabbing and deceit, then you have no such assurances. I may, if it suits me, or I may not. Or I may begin to help, and then yank the rug from underneath you because it is more expedient or perhaps just more amusing.
Amorally speaking, the world is built on “goodness” because it is more predictable as a system than “badness.” The “goodness” is generally rewarded and the “badness” is typically punished by the powers that be because it’s easier to get things done that way.
Me, I’m Catholic. I do what I’m told because otherwise the guilt is too overwhelming.
In my non-religious world, goodness is it’s own reward. You try to do the right thing simply because it IS the right thing. A sense of fairness is required. There is no reward, per se…the reward is the act of doing the right thing.
It isn’t really a simple question. The Golden Rule only works because of self interest. Assuming that most people want similar things with regard to how they are treated by others, you will treat people well, kindly, honestly, faithfully, because you would like to be treated that way yourself. If you are a massochist, or if you really don’t care how others regard and treat you, the GR won’t work for you.
If you have a sense of guilt (not a feeling that you are guilty, but the sense of what acts might make you so), that may provide an incentive to behave well so that you won’t experience guilt.
Some people do have the attitude that the only reason to behave morally toward others is to avoid punishment either here and now or hereafter. That seems a weak reason, since such people will behave badly if they think they can get away with it.
Personally, I really do believe virtue is its own reward, realizing, of course, that a definition of what constitutes virtue could fill a very large thread of its own.
The answer to the OP’s question then is that the incentive to do good depends on what the individual wants. Does he want to be liked and treated well? Does he want to avoid punishment or the opprobrium of others? Does he just want his mother to be proud? The incentive will be different for different people.
I agree that virtue is its own reward. I don’t believe in any divine moral code, but I do believe that we have evolved to have a sense of empathy for our fellow humans, because it benefits us collectively. When we hurt others, we feel guilt, because we understand what it feels like to be hurt. I think bad behavior may come back in our face at some point, but not necessarily; it’s quite possible to commit evil and get away with it. And there are many people who seem to lack any sense of empathy (or somehow suppress it), and pretty much do whatever they think they can get away with, which I think is the definition of a sociopath.
I do think that the world contains its own form of justice. Nasty people tend to have nasty lives. They surround themselves with people who approve of their morals, and thus end up getting screwed-over themselves. They never have true friends, or selfless love and so miss out on the greatest joys in life.
They never quite understand why their friends aren’t trustworthy, and why bad things seem to always happen to them. Because they have little understanding of the cause-and-effect of rules, when small justices happen, they’re enraged and confused.
Because of these things, they’re generally unhappy people. They may put on a brave face to the world, grinning defiantly, but it tends to happen that the circumstances around them make their lives pretty miserable-- and worse, they’re never sure exactly why.
Just add a little comment… being bad to those outside your social circle tribe or nation is normally regarded as quite different from being a SOB within your own people. So you have to seem good… to your own.
A lot of this is only possible because of the size and relative anonymoity of our society. Back in cave-man days when our social instincts were first developed, it would have been a lot harder to get away with this sort of stuff because everyone knows everyone else.
The bad people not only get away with it, they propser from their badness. As evidence, I submit the many threads on this board, proving that the “bad boys” get all the chicks.
If you are a materialist the only incentive to be good is fear of being caught. I remember reading about an armored car losing a bag of money. It sped around a corner and the back door flew open causing a bag of money to fall out. Then the back door slammed back to shut again, as if it never happened. The person in the car behind the armored vehicle saw what happened, stopped, picked up the bag, and pursued the armored car to give it back. Not being able to catch the armored car the person again stopped and called the owner of the armored car company to report he had the money. He was told they would come for the money, instead police cars arrived and took the person into custody. They accused him of stealing the money because the drivers swore the door never opened. After a week in jail they finally let him go. Yes, there is no fairness in this world, but there is justice.
In my knowing there is a higher intelligence, and there is an afterlife. As some of you said before being good is its own reward. Well being bad is its own reward also. The rule is that you will reap what you sow, what goes around comes around. Practicing self-restraint will pay big dividends in the future.
The why do the “good” people spend so much time bitching and whining on message boards while “bad” people are off getting laid and making money?
There is no incentive to be “good”. There is incentive to be accepted into society and by your peers. There are incentives to build wealth and live comfortibly.
People talk about corporations, politicians, etc as if they are inherently evil. When your universe is just you and a few close people, I imagine it’s easy to paint everything black or white. When you are in a position where thousands or millions of people depend on your decisions, it becomes a lot harder. Decisions are seldom “right” or “wrong” and their are often winners and losers regardless of what the decision is.
A couple of years ago I was crossing the street when I saw a wallet in the gutter. I took it home and found the ID, then called the owner for him to come pick it up. What was my incentive?
