I searched for the ‘What led you to your beliefs’ thread, but nothing came up, so, what with the increased server speed and all, I’ll go ahead and open this here new one.
I am an atheist (secular humanist, if the test at selectsmart.com is to be believed). My parents are Christain, as is the rest of my family besides my brother. I consider myself to be one who cares about the world around me: I am outraged by those who kill, maim and torture others and animals, care about the environment, and (at this lowly teenage time) am determined to do all I can for those in need (ex: at the time being, I am making plans to donate my 400+ stuffed animal collection to the area’s childrens hospital and, once it gets longer, chop off my hair to shoulder length for Locks for Love), among other things. I oppose abortion for those who were not raped and have no problem with genetic engineering or cloning of body parts for those with terminal diseases, though not for those who wish to be immortal or super-human. I wish that everyone would have the same rights and that everyone would learn that homosexuals, athiests, african-americans etc. are just like them and not persecute them because of one thing that they either cannot help or believe is right.
These views seem to be in direct conflict with those of my family, with the possible exception of my brother. Everyone else is completely pro-life, no matter the case; is opposed to cloning/g.engineering; donates to Goodwill around tax time after (finally) cleaning out the attic; they seem not to care much at all when the EPA raises the maximum emmission levels for power plants in our area and gave not the slightest doubletake when they heard about the major oil spill in the Atlantic. My mom about went into tears when my brother came out of the closet and asked where she went wrong. They do seem, however, to also despise those who kill/maim/torture/what have you.
My question is this: What leads someone to their values/morals/beliefs? In my case, it certainly is not your family (or am I a freak?). Is it your friends[sup]1[/sup], teachers[sup]2[/sup] or something else entirely?
1.mine are a mix between polytheism [1], atheism [3] and monotheism [quite a few], that either don’t care about the environment[a few] to those that were pissed the day after election day [one] to those who will snatch up a paper if it mentions an oil spill [all but maybe 4], and all [but maybe 1] agree with me on the rights-for-all issue.
2. I’ve had one either atheist or agnostic teacher who also greatly cared about the enviornment (actually, I think he agreed with me on everything) and the rest were Christains who either never showed any emotion as to what they cared about (very many) or were kinda in the middle on all those issues, as far as I could tell.
Everything. All of your life experiences combined give you your values. That’s why values change as the more experience you get and what you experience.
My values come from what makes me personally happy. Psychological relief, inward analysis, etc. Often this involves being unkind to others for the sake of myself. However, I find my kindness is a greater gift when it is given with the understanding that it will make me happy as well.
Many here will say values are determined by the sum total of heredity and environment. Indeed, there are certain genes that may make those who have them somewhat more likely to hold certain values. And certain environments also lead those in them to be somewhat more likely to lean in a certain direction. But no one can begin to prove that identical heredity and environment lead to identical values. And there are plenty of examples otherwise–for example, of identical twins raised together where only one turns criminal or vicious.
Every human is utterly unique. Millions, probably tens of millions of teenagers in this world know English and have internet access, and you are the only one asking this question today, or maybe on any other day. Does this make you strange? Not at all. If you really, really got to know hundreds of other teens, each of them would have values, and even an activity or two, just as unique. I can’t prove it, any more than the other side can prove their determinism, but this leads me to believe that your values have many influences but ultimately are your own choice.
I’m tempted to stick up for your parents a little, but have probably said enough. I can say that I would be proud to have a child who posted as you did, and I say that despite disagreeing with many of your values.
Well in the classic nature vs. nurture argument, this is clearly dependent solely on nurture. My wife is somewhat (admitedly) racist towards blacks because of how her step-father acted towards them, and her great, great grandpa was a “top-guy” in the KKK; eventhough she hasn’t had a bad experience with any blacks, as is the case with many racists… I on the other hand was bag-snatched and drug across a field by a group of black guys on halloween when I was around 10-12 years old, but I hold no hostilities towards blacks because of the way I was raised.
There must be some genetic or innate factor(s). Consider siblings who have had the same environment and experiences, but who are very different with respect to values, morals, character, integrity…
I am confused. Doesn’t that disprove the genetic/innate factor? My parents are hard core roman catholic republicans as are several of my siblings. On the other hand, I am a bisexual female who supports a lot of liberal policies.
I think that first you accept what your parents believe, and then as you get older, you choose to accept or deny what the world tells you.
I consider myself to be one who cares about the world around me: I am outraged by those who kill, maim and torture others and animals, care about the environment, … **
You’re outraged by those who care about the environment?
My beliefs have come together in bits and pieces – a book here, a movie or two, a chance encounter. But the thing that keeps me returning to the values of compassion and a helping hand is the memory of my father. He was the kindest man that I have ever known. Because I have loved him so much, I think that those particular values have become mine. Compassion and personal integrity are enormously important to me.
Anyone read the telegraph today?
The article about how ridiculously crap the league against cruel sports in the UK are about looking after their deer reserve is interesting… because they refused to cull, the deer are dying of starvation, and one deer who broke a leg had to wait two weeks in agony before the warden was allowed to kill it.
I grew up in a conservative Protestant family in Alabama. My parents were not perfect, but they were what most people would classify as good people (i.e. law abiding, compassionate, almost always willing to help somebody in need). They were also, if it is possible to be this, passive racists; while they looked down on the KKK as whitetrash and conceded that blacks often got a raw deal, they also used the “n” word as often as they said “black” when in private, and the same was true of most of the members of their upper middle class social circle.
(I should add that there is a locally famous photograph taken of my mother during integration. On the day the elementary school where she taught was integrated, more than a few rednecks showed up, many of them armed. As the 8 and 9 year old black children were taken into the school, she heard a shotgun pump and instinctively, perhaps as a mother, grabbed two of the children and clutched them to her, shielding them with her body, and somebody snapped a photo that appeared in the news. The redneck was bluffing and nobody was hurt that day…
Fast-Forward thirty something years: The same woman, now in her late 60s, had to trade places with me when we were sitting ina restaurant and the couple across from her were biracial; it bothered her too much to watch them while she ate. (She also made me promise I would never date a black woman- she got her wish- in the Twilight Zone; I think by now she’d throw her arms around Queen Latifah if she thought we were dating as I’ve yet to bring home a white boyfriend who met with her approval.)
Anyway, it was racism that turned me off the homegrown Christianity. Schools were integrated, but the churches were as segregated as they ever were by both race and social class and each almost had a corresponding country club. I was a teenager before I realized what Jim Crow had been and was astonished to learn that the old people in my own family and among our friends still bemoaned the loss of the “innocence” of those days, even while still being what most would call “good people”. (Southern racism, especially among those over 60, is an extremely complex thing and hard to understand for those not born and reared in it: it is very possible and in fact very common for a black and white person to care about, in fact love, one another very much, but never really be “equals”.)
As a teenager I adapted a Jeffersonian worldview; the divinity of Christ didn’t make sense to me, but the Christian ethics did, particularly the Golden Rule. Then I learned that there’s nothing unique to Christianity about that, then I read the Eulythro tale, and since then my ethical system has been a combination of logic and compassion. I finally felt I’d been given my 10 (plus) commandments, however, when I first read the Notebooks of Lazarus Long. http://www.bobgod.com/writer/lazaruslong.html
I accept all the above as true for Siemsi. But this is also true:
Per statistical geneology, the vast majority of those alive 1,500+ years ago are among the ancestors of EVERYONE alive today. We all have in us the genes of those who threw children into Moloch’s fire. And we all are just as surely descended from the family which gave us the sermon on the mount. And not just in one thin geneological line, but in many, many interlinking ways. (There was an article on this in the Atlantic earlier this year, although I can’t find the link.)
All the good people alive today arose from those who rebeled against evil environments and evil parenting, just as all the evil people alive today are that way despite having loads of saintly ancestors.
Everyone has conformist inclinations, rebellious moods, and even streaks of genuine originality. Which parts of our heritage we embrace, reject, or radically tranform is our choice.
