100 %.
Of course, the sample group is the woman to whom I was married. YMMV.
Not to throw a wet blanket o’ statistics on this little fidelity-fest, but here’s some fun little stats on relationships from the 5th Congress of the EUROPEAN FEDERATION OF SEXOLOGY held in Berlin, 29 June - 2 July 2000:
Thank you for encapsulating my wordiness down to a much better brevity.
So, what he said.
WhyNot, (sorry, I don’t know how to quote a quote), the problem is that your stats have no gender breakdown. “50% of all Americans” tells us nothing about the percentage of women who are adulterous, except that it is definitely not 100% and is probably not zero.
You’re right, of course. The reason is there’s very little difference between the genders anymore, and the gap is lessening every year. But, for some more numbers, we can check out this cover story from Newsweek, where it says:
And those are just those couples who end up in counseling. It doesn’t acount for women (and men) who are unfaithful but never seek counseling.
I can’t find any studies to link to directly, as the whole Google-verse is flooded with the Newsweek story at the moment. Let me look through some of my human sexuality texts and see if I can find anything.
Thank you, Whynot for proving my gut instinct correct.
Never say never is my motto. And the airport lounge dealy or the 3 day conference in a far away city is the ideal situation for EITHER spouse…
I have never cheated on my husband, but I have been tempted several times. What stops me? Fear of losing the kids or even the marriage (warts and all) that we have, a promise I made 17 years ago, I suppose. Hard to say, really.
but I do know, that at the nadir of our marriage about 4 years ago–if a guy had come along that flirted and flattered me, paid any kind of attention to me–I woulda been a goner, for sure.
You never know what life holds for you.
based on my expierence with my SOs in my life.
100%
Well I’m not sure that your situation qualifies as cheating since you discussed an “open marriage” before hand. If my wife and I decided to go to “swing clubs” I wouldn’t then accuse her of cheating for having sex with someone else. What got me really thinking about this issue was the fact that I had three friends who were “awe struck with dread” when they found out that their wives were having affairs (all through people that they met at work, and two of the three with superiors). Now, I only have about six or seven people that I would call “friends” (and of these five are from highschool) so the fact that three would experience this situation over a period of about two years seems to defy the odds (and we are talking about church going, college educated, MidWestern, middle income folks here). Furthermore, I’m not certain of any of my “guy” friends have cheated (with the exception of one who my wife gave a BJ to in my presence with my permission on two occassions when he was seperated from his wife for six months, but he was one of the ones referenced above who was “awe struck” to find his wife was having an affair with her boss. That raises the question by the way of whether or not I should be offended that she swallowed for him and never does or even give BJ’s for that matter for me?)
It’s certainly possible for people in an open marriage to cheat, IMHO. Different couples have radically different ground rules and boundaries for who is an acceptable other partner. For some, only people both spouses know are OK; for others, people both spouses know are specifically verbotten. Many couples put exes on their “no-go” list. Sleeping with someone outside the boundaries set up in your marriage - whatever those boundaries are - is “cheating.”
I think a majority of people (easily) would cheat given the right circumstances. Off the top of my head, I really can’t think of any person who has never cheated in a monogamous relationship. I don’t think I would personally, but I know I’ve done it exactly once, when I was 19. I’m 99.999999% certain I wouldn’t do it again, but who knows. When that happened, I was dead set against cheating, and quite surprised to find myself capable of doing it. Of course, I didn’t think of the “ex-girlfriend” factor.
I’ve been cheated on at least once as well. Also from a person who supposedly held herself in high moral esteem. Factor in an old flame and an inattentive boyfriend (me), and voila. Cheat city.
I certainly do not approve of cheating, but I do see how people are tempted and stray. Even the people in my social circle who’ve I’ve respected the most have shown me that pretty much anyone and everyone is capable of cheating. I would definitely characterize all my close friends as good and caring, but all have one time or another reneged on their commitment.
I do believe I can be in an absolutely faithful relationship; I don’t think they’re totally unheard of. But I absolutely do not believe that most people keep will always keep their commitments. No way in hell, and I don’t think I’m being particularly cynical. Given the right circumstances, almost everyone will cheat. Almost.
Oh, I think you can. My example was meant to illustrate how wide “the right circumstances” is, so wide as to really mean nothing. For example, if divorce became illegal and your wife became an abusive frigid junkie while a medicine you had to take for a medical condition gave you a hyperactive sex drive, and at the same time you were surrounded by a bunch of centerfold models constantly hitting on you… I think you’d cheat sooner or later. Pretty soon, if you’re like most people.
Beyond the realm of reasonableness? Of course. That’s why I wanted a closer definition of “the right circumstances”, and also clarification on whether we’re talking about a one-time thing or a calculated long-term affair.
Me!
hehe… Cite ?!
If I think long and hard about it, there probably are one or two people who fit the description. I’ve probably even dated one, but you never know for sure.
I think Elysian’s mention of the emotional costs is important. For some women, that could be a bigger issue than the other risks listed here (financial risks, custody concerns, etc).
It’s going to sleep every night with an ugly secret. it’s knowing you’re a sneaky weasel. It’s freaking out when you husband rents “The Good Girl” because you wonder what that means. It’s the slimy little lies you tell yourself about how it was okay because your husband doesn’t satify you or cuts his fingernails without cleaning up the clippings afterwards. That stuff would never go away, no matter how airtight your alibi was, no matter how small the risk of being discovered. Who wants to live like that? I have to believe a lot of married women would say “not me.”
Perhaps I can provide a different perspective, since my wife cheated with me. When I met her, she was married, but I didn’t know it.
That 30%-40% number is an upper bound. You are talking about couples that are already in trouble! I think the percentage of women that cheat in a good marriage (or other long term relationship) is very low. You risk too much for too little. You risk all the negative feelings, throwing away your relationship, and most importantly - hurting someone you love, for what? Let’s face, half the guys in the world are worse lovers than average. If her hubby is only average, chances are 50-50 the sex will be worse than what she is getting already.
If the relationship is in trouble, I think the odds are higher - in that 30%-40% range. My wife is not “the cheatin’ kind”. I have no fears at night that she has cheated on me. She both loves me, and is a rule abiding type. In the case of my wife, she decided her life sucked went back to school, and her husband continued to be one of the reasons her life sucked. She started dating, and eventually moved away for the school year. I met her her second year after moving to school. Her husband never called, I know that for a fact, because I spent a lot of time there, and even her roomate didn’t know she was married. Effectively, their relationship was dead; it is just that as we discovered, he didn’t know it. Yes, it probably helps my odds that she is much older now. We have been together for over 20 years, and hormones run higher in your late teens and through your twenties.
Roland, it is not a question of “will most women cheat given the right circumstances?” If you are asking “will most people cheat under some circumstance?”, the question is clearly yes. Will most people cheat under the current circumstance? No. Will most marriages go through an unhappy period? Absolutely. Will most couples stay loyal in those bad times? Yes, if they are worth knowing, but it depends on how bad and for how long, and how good things were before.
I believe you are really asking, “am I a fool for staying in my marriage, since pathetic as I am, women are hitting on me?” Only you can answer that one. I will say that your relationship will not get better unless you decide to make it better. If you and your wife do not want to save your marriage, then end it. Otherwise, you will spend your days in bitter resentment of ruining each other’s lives, and you aren’t doing your kids any good, either.
See, and I suspect that the 30%-40% number is the **lower **end of things. Those are the ones who are having enough trouble in their marriage that they’re seeking counseling. What about the one night stands that people don’t feel guilty about, or feel guilty about but never, ever tell - even to a researcher? What about women with long-tern lovers who rationalize that as long as they’re being a “good wife and mother” and their partner isn’t giving them what they need, they are justified it getting some on the side? What about that trip to Vegas? I think there’s certainly at least **some **people who manage infidelity without all the wracking guilt pangs, and without seeking counseling for marital strife, which would push the numbers higher than those estimated by marriage counselors.
Do you really think the infidelity rate is higher for couples not in trouble than for couples not in trouble? That is what you are claiming. Sure, there are obstensibly happily married couples with one (or both) partner cheating. And there are marriages on the rocks that are not in counseling. But I do not believe the infidelity rate is higher for couples not in counseling than for couples in counseling. And note that the counselors are not saying 30-40% admit to cheating, the says that counselors estimate, which implies one of two things. One, they don’t keep statistics. Two, that they sometimes suspect someone is cheating who hasn’t admitted it. I’m going with both.
All the reasons you give why people not in counseling might cheat also exist for couples in counseling. But, they wouldn’t be in counseling if there weren’t issues, and some of the couples not in counseling are in fact, doing quite well, thank you. I believe the group including the satisfied couples has a lower infidelity rate than the group in counseling. (It is not like finding one couple not in counseling and with a partner cheating raises that 30%-40% figure. Or are you making a math error?)
Now, Roland situation is unique, like all of ours. He is already claiming he and his wife don’t do it much, and that his willingly performed a sex act on his friend that she is not willing to do for him. He has also stated he that he sees himself as unattractive. All of that does not imply that she would be willing to cheat, given the opportunity, but it does raise the odds in his case.
:smack:
“Do you really think the infidelity rate is higher for couples not in trouble than for couples not in trouble?”
should be
Do you really think the infidelity rate is higher for couples not in trouble than for couples in trouble?
I have a totally different take on this. I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on this point. I believe some women will never cheat for precisely the emotional reasons you state, but I also believe that as many men wouldn’t cheat for exactly the same reasons- maybe phrased differenty, but basically the same.
I think that in the real world as many women cheat as men. I think a lot of women lie - to themselves, to each other, to the people who survey them about the whole cheating thing. And while some women could not see cheating on the man they love more than anything regardless of his flaws, as many men would not risk the loss of child(ren) for a fling or a momentary lapse of reason in an airport.
Because really, who are these married men cheating with?