What responsibility do a people have to change their country/state rather than flee it?

Great Debates
21

One thing this thread isn’t really considering is the ability to leave. Americans can all, in theory, move from Texas to another state without difficulty. In practice, leaving one’s family and support network is difficult enough that most people don’t. Moving countries is exponentially harder, and even in a war, not everyone can leave.

Another factor that complicates Gaza is that Gaza isn’t really a country. It’s more like a giant reservation. Yes, there is local government, but given the history, what resources the Strip has, the neighbouring countries, and various other factors, it’s debatable how much can really be changed.

I left the US and have no regrets. I don’t feel like I owed anything to the country or its people; it’s where I was born and raised, and I’m definitely culturally American, but it’s also very clear to me that some of the problems (e.g. guns and healthcare) are simply intractable. I could devote my life to moving that needle very slightly, or I could leave. While I admire the people working for positive change, I figure that I’m leaving for the same reasons my ancestors came to the US in the first place: a better life.

The thing is, once you leave for a while, the country you’re from ceases to exist. Events happen, culture changes, and if you’re not keeping up with it, the place you’re from isn’t just geographically distant, it’s also in the past. I never lived in Trump’s America. I read the news, but I don’t really get how America has changed.

It’s also true that you can change a lot from outside the country. You can send money back. You can use your position as a Palestinian / Ukrainian / whatever abroad to advocate for change, to be a visible reminder of these places in the corridors of power. How many ex-pats have made more of a difference by leaving than they would have if they’d stayed? I think quite a lot.

On the other hand, as soon as you leave, you start becoming something else, and your children and grandchildren are at best bicultural, but usually only notionally whatever you started as. By leaving, you also ultimately erase yourself, unless you’re leaving in the thousands and settling together—and even then, you still have to make an effort.

As for me, I continue to vote, though that does very little practical good (not a swing state or district).

22

Context matters.

Americans have a lot more agency to either effect change or move elsewhere than many, many other people in the world. This skews their perspective on what is possible, as well as the consequences of their choices.

In many places, trying to protest or change the system can put you in prison or a grave. In some it can even do the same to your extended family. There are countries that do everything they can to prevent people from leaving. In other times and places people are driven from their homes. People vary in resources, in whether or not others are depending on them for food and shelter.

As for the bitching and moaning - people complain, it’s part of being human. I think it’s unreasonable to expect refugees to be wildly in love with everything in a new culture, or to never have frustrations or bad days.

For sure, though, becoming a refugee is not safe - every year thousands of people die attempting to leave one place and start over in another. No one is walking from Venezuela to Texas or attempting to cross the Mediterranean in a leaky rubber boat for fun. That’s a level a desperation we (I hope) will never know. I don’t think relocating is always the “easy” way out, sometimes it’s the only way to survive. I don’t think it’s reasonable to ask people to stay and die when they have a chance to leave.

23

None-what-so-ever.

First of all, the question assumes some sort of objective moral code - which does not exist. That, and every situation is different.

If the situation is hopeless, is it ‘just’ or heroic to throw your life away? Do you have that duty, or is it foolish? For example, the Jews against the Nazi war machine. Those people were absolutely justified in their flight (the ones that chose that option).

My opinion is that you were born a “citizen” of the planet. If some warhawk makes your current local untenable, you have the right to move to another part of the planet (negotiating the local laws governing your flight is your responsibility).

24

It’s often said that the United States of America is a nation of immigrants, we sometimes repeat that with pride, so it would be a little rich for any of us to castigate anyone for leaving their home country for another because this is exactly what many of our ancestors did. People emigrate to other countries in large numbers for two reasons. In both cases they’re seeking a better life by either fleeing persecution or searching for economic opportunity.

Years ago here at the Straight Dope, there was a conversation about people who pulled their kids out of public school and into a private school. There was a contingent of people who believed it was wrong for a parent to do so because it harmed the rest of the students in the public school as it would divert resources. My argument was that a parent’s primary responsibility is to the welfare of their child, and if they would get a subpar education at their local public school it was perfectly moral for them to send their kid to a private school. I view this in a similar light.

Your primary responsibility is to your family. If living in your home country is harmful to either yourself or your family, it’s perfectly okay for you to seek green pastures elsewhere. You have no obligation to stay, fight, and try to improve the situation. And that’s especially true if by stayting you’re risking life & limb.