Anyone seriously considering leaving the U.S. if McCain wins?

Great Debates
1

Usually, I follow elections fairly closely but also disinterestedly. However, this time, my passions have been aroused and I’ve made it really personal: I desperately want Obama to win. The reasons are numerous, but I think ultimately it comes down to something Obama himself said in his New Hampshire primary speech: "This time must be different." Usually I’m a right-leaning liberal, but something about Obama inspires me so much. While I honestly don’t agree that much with many of his policies, I think the fact that he is so inspirational is really important. The POTUS is the head of state and is the public face of his nation, and he makes me care again. I think his brilliant rhetoric ability and his capacity to make people stand up and do something is priceless. I am also 24, and the United States is in the worst state that I can ever remember. Not only have we lost any moral authority globally, many of our policies have us losing our last great standing: economic strength.

For that reason, reading this article this morning almost left me in tears: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7604333.stm.

What upsets me the most about the article is that the reason McCain is doing so well is Sarah freakin’ Palin. If he wins because of her, that means that the Christian Right has truly won in this country, cause that is what this woman brings to the ticket. McCain would have won because he elected a down home gal who

  1. Is for teaching creationism in public schools
  2. Is for abstinence-only education
  3. Tried to have books banned from her local library based on language
  4. If she had her druthers, would not allow any form of abortion for any reason besides health of the mother.

She also has some other policy stances, like being pro-drilling in ANWR. While I disagree with that, it doesn’t bother me as much as her other, religiously-based stances.

Anyways, ultimately, I find Palin a very distasteful figure, for all the reasons that everyone else has listed on this board many times. If McCain wins, it will be because America loves this woman whose politics and reputed strong-arm tactics I despise.
America would have actually voted for HER over the most inspiring, personally interesting candidate on the left that we have had in a long time.

So ultimately, I think that if McCain takes this elections, the political tide and character of America would have changed to the point where the religious right rules everything. For that reason, I would find myself at odds with the nation’s current values and seriously consider leaving.

Anyone else with me?

Gestalt

2

If I have time before the application deadlines, I might add a couple UK schools to my grad school list.

3

I would also like to add that I LOVE THIS COUNTRY. I have lived in and traveled to many places, and am actually an immigrant here. I have a deep respect for the United States because of our profound belief in the power of the individual and our firm defense of individual rights. I think our embracing of meritocracy, our strong attachment to rule of law and clean governance, and especially our bill of rights (one of the most beautiful and sacred documents I have ever read) truly set us apart, because if not the first country to adopt such beliefs, United States has traditionally held these values most deeply, at least in name, if not in deed. I think such values have made us the powerhouse we are today. Just today, I went to court for the first time ever to argue an unfair speeding ticket, and I got my fine reduced. I remember being really excited that I was able to prevail myself of our justice system, that I had an outlet for what I considered unfair treatment, and that ultimately the system worked. This is not true of many countries.

So this decision would be hard for me.

Gestalt

4

It’s very difficult, if not impossible, to effect change to your country’s political system when you’re living in, say, Iceland. Leaving the country is a response to the flight reflex caused by something that scares you. It’s also a pointless gesture and it means that the other side has won. Running away from the problems accomplishes nothing.

A question: Have you done anything in the past year and a half to make sure Obama gets elected? As in actively campaigning, volunteering, etc.? To quote the Republican spinsters: “Hope is not a strategy.”

5

Chefguy, I have contributed money to his campaign. But I wouldn’t be leaving cause, “my guy didn’t win,” I would be leaving because I would feel that the popular sentiment in America, personified by Palin, totally clashed with my own beliefs, and that I no longer “belonged” here, if that makes sense.

Gestalt.

6

I used to live in the USA. I’m not, however, a citizen - I’m British.

There were many factors that influenced my decision to leave the USA, but the festering political situation was certainly relevant. It didn’t even have much to do with any particular candidate. I mean, in a democracy, sometimes the person we didn’t vote for gets elected. That’s just the way it is.

What concerned me was a feeling that political discourse in the USA has become so debased that it’s difficult to imagine how either candidate could salvage the situation. Plus, of course, the fact that it’s not really up to me to tell Americans how to run their country - they had every reason to tell me to “love it or leave it”. I left it.

7

Where could we go? Most of us don’t have a skill important enough for another government to want us living there. All we can do is keep voting the way we think is right, and hope everyone else comes along and sees it our way eventually.

That’s not to say that I’m not deeply concerned about the trend toward religious conservatism in the government; it scares the crap out of me. There’s just nowhere to go.

8

Well, you could always go where the various Hollywood celebrities went after they vociferously promised to leave if Bush was re-elected.

Oh, wait, none of them actually left.:dubious:

9

I survived George W. I imagine I can survive anyone.

10

Bingo. It was the only time I actually looked into another country as an option. But I realized that if thinking people leave, the whackos will certainly take over. Your voice, however small, is important in beating back the tide of religious fundamentalism and exposing lies.

11

How do you leap from “McCain wins” to “the religious right runs everything”? Why do you think it’s just the RR that’ll vote for him as opposed to, say, my fellow Main St Republicans? Also, I don’t understand why you think that the other 49.9% of people that vote for Obama would drop off the face of the earth. You’re taking an electoral college decision and calling it “what America thinks”. That’s a silly leap.

12

I would say that it’s because this leap in the polls is largely attributed to Palin, whose primary visible policy positions center around religious conservatism.

And the fact that this sentiment would be so strong as to drive people to vote for a republican when:

  1. The last 8 years under a republican administration were so unsuccessful and

  2. The democratic candidate is so charismatic and attractive.

So it’s not like things were humming along under Bush and then Kerry 2 was nominated as the Dem. candidate. These people like Palin so much that they are going to vote for her in spite of the strong reasons to vote dem this year.

Gestalt

13

I’ve been dreaming about leaving since 2004, but then Obama gave me something to be proud of again. I am quite scared that he may not win and it will be four more years of the same dreck that’s turned my stomach for the past 8 years.

I dream about hopping off to England - where, I realize, the political climate is just as crap as ours but for some reason I feel like it won’t be MY problem - but it’s just not possible for me.

The logistics of me moving out of the country are nightmarish and hardly feasible. If I wasn’t tied down, I’d go. But I just don’t see that becoming a possibility any time soon.

I also love America. My dad is a veteran. My family is a union family. I am one fat, pasty midwesterner. But for some reason I feel like the government is representing “me” less and less. I have an alarming number of blindly-Republican friends. All of the people I know from the 2 generations before me are voting Republican. The political climate is making my question my own religious beliefs. It all just makes me feel sick.

But…I can’t go. I can dream about it but I can’t go. I have to stay, and make the best out of it.

14

“leap in the polls”? By political standards, it’s a leap but in mathematical terms, it’s miniscule. You didn’t respond to my two main points: 1) Reps aren’t all RR. 2) All the Dems will still exist after the election. The OP’s calling the election victor “America” and saying that a Rep president means the RR runs everything. I’d understand the position if McCain won 99-1 but he won’t. He’d win, at best, 52-48. So the OP wants to flee from 52% of the population (assuming electoral college=pop. vote, roughly)? Why another country and not seek refuge with the other 48% of the people?

15

We lost at least half the population right after George W. was elected or at least that is what claimed people claimed they were going to do. If we take another, massive population hit like that again in a few months, I am not sure what the fallout will be. The employment rate should be good and housing should be cheap though.

16

People really do leave. Maybe Panama will turn out to be just the ticket for ya.

17

I left not long after Bush was elected the first time… in response to the handling of the post 9/11 situation and the blind patriotism that came out of it.

I sold most of my things, put the rest in storage and bought a one way ticket to Tbilisi, Republic of Georgia. I later spent some time in Prague, moved to Dubai for three years, spent 7 months in the Indian Ocean region and later bought an apartment in Prague.

I have a ticket back into the US in November. If McCain wins, I’ll be returning overseas after the New Year holiday. If Obama wins, I’ll be buying a house in the US and moving back (but will likely still spend summers over here).

McCain just means more war, no health care and a deeper theocracy. No thanks.

18

Nobody is saying the RR runs everything. We’re just saying we’re afraid of them and the influence they have on the government. A lot of people make fun of us for threatening to leave, but they’re ignoring the deeper issue of WHY people wish they could. We’re afraid of what the schools are going to teach our kids about science. We’re afraid of people who think homosexuality is an unnatural sin being the ones in control of the military and police. That’s all it comes down to; fear. I’m terrified of unreasonable, hateful, judgmental people who think they have a right to tell me how to live having such tremendous influence in the courts and government.

19

Of course I won’t leave. My family is here, my friends are here, my legions of genetically engineered howler monkeys are here.

20

My dad did it after 2004. He was doing his last State Department tour in Brazil and said that if Bush was reelected, he would not return to the US. He’s retired in Rio now.