Things are not looking good for the lab. My co-worker, Rob the Aussie, is job hunting in his home country. He has a phone interview appointment next week for a job that would suit him perfectly. Rob and I were talking about this job prospect and he gave me this bit of advice:
“I sent them my CV and now they’re emailing me some of their papers. They’re trying to impress me. That’s something you should always keep in mind when looking for a job: they should make you want to work with them.”
For my entire career, my attitude during a job hunt was, “If the money is green, I’ll take it.”
So, are you selective about who you work for, or will you take any job that comes along?
I think the point is that showing an attitude of desperation, such as in dating, will turn potential employers off. Internally, you can be freaking the hell out about which child you’re going to have to sell in order to pay the electricity bill, but you should always go into interviews with the outward composure of someone who is planning on interviewing the company as much as the company is interviewing them.
That being said, I’ve been in the situation where I’m desperate and will take the first thing that comes along, and the above is a nicer idea in theory than it is in practice.
Over the last few years, thanks to the “employees’ market” of the Celtic Tiger experiences in Ireland, I have taken the approach “persuade me to work for you”.
This change in attitude has made a HELL of a lot of difference to my behaviour in an interview. The old “do you have any questions” meme turns into me interviewing them. I also find myself interjecting pertinent questions into their interviewing me.
I’ve been recruiting a lot in the past few weeks, and being on the other side of the table, someone who reacts like this in the interview would certainly make a good impression on me too.
I agree with your Aussie buddy. Whom do you want to work for? Somebody who wants you and is trying to show you their best face, or somebody whose attitude toward you is “Meh”?
Having chaired two searches this summer and sat in on open Q&A sessions on a bunch of others, I can tell you that when I get a hint of, “I applied for this job because I’ll take anything at this point,” it’s a huge negative. Even if that’s the way you feel, do your homework so you can convince them that you want to work for THEM, not just anybody, and be able to tell them with specifics that relate to their company why you want to.
My career situation is a little odd. I work in biomedical research and specialize in animal manipulation. What makes me stand out from other applicants are two HUGE negatives: I don’t have a bachelor’s degree and I go to school part-time (to eventually get said degree). Any job offer may be the only one I receive, so I don’t feel like I have the luxury of waiting to see what else comes along.
MM, I’ve been following your story and understand your situation. I’m not saying you should be picky, because I realize you may not have that luxury. Regarding the employer wooing you, as Rob said, “That’s something you should look for in a job.” My wish for you is that you’ll be in the position to weigh two offers with that in mind! I think the more important thing is to not send out the “I’ll take anything!” vibe.
My story, condensed: Got canned after 13 years because I picked a fight with a slimeball superior. As the sole wage earner with a two-year old, I was panicked. My former boss, who had experienced something similar, counseled me not to accept the first thing that came along just because it was an offer in hand. But when push came to shove, I caved. I’d been looking with no success, got an offer, and snapped at it. It was a horrible fit (I realized that in the first week). The job stressed me out incredibly, but my supervisor thought I was doing a great job, so I decided to stick it out for a year. I did, and when I moved on at a year and two months, it was on good terms (and with some great experience under my belt.)
My point (yes, I have one!) is this. You may not be able to pick and choose among offers, but you are in control of the way you present yourself. Sure, you may get rejected at the application stage because you don’t have a bachelor’s degree. But when you get the interview, it’s because they see the value in your experience.
And, unless you feel you have to give your pursuit of a bachelor’s degree priority, don’t bring up the part-time school thing until you allow them to enough time to realize they really want to hire you. You can negotiate from there.
Good luck to you, MM. You’ve had a helluva year and deserve a break in the form of recognition of all your lab skills – i.e., a job offer.
For interim, just paying the rent jobs? Yeah, I don’t mind doing some semi-crappy jobs (I will avoid waitressing like the plague, unless I have no choice).
But for my regular industry? I’m pretty picky. I won’t work for just anyone. To me, there is a lot more to where you work than just how much is in the paycheck. There’s “income for the psyche” too. And imho, that’s just as important, if not moreso, than the paycheck.
I’ve also found that having those interim jobs while I’m looking for a “real” job, goes a LONG way toward making sure I don’t feel, or at least display any desparation.
Have you looked into internships at companies that, while they don’t necessarily fit the exact biomedical research mold, might be a good notch on your resume?
There are places that may need someone part time, and don’t want all of the hassles and expense of training, bennies, and all that.
I’m not in your field, I’m in environmental consulting, but we hire interns and are pretty open to flexible schedules.
best of luck. Even though I’m set now, I have been through the times of either no job, or crappy jobs.
The previous time I was looking for a job, I sent out 3 resumes got an interview at all 3 places and got 2 job offers (and an opportunity to interview for a different position at the 3rd place). I was unemployed for about 6 weeks.
This time I have applied to about 21 places, have had 3 “real” interviews, 2 “we have no openings now but lets talk” interviews, and one phone interview. I’ve been unemployed for about 4 months.
This understandably changes my attitude, I’m getting worried that I won’t find anything in the area (I don’t want to move). Finacially I can wait, but at this point I would take just about anything. I might treat it as a temporary position, but I’d probably take it.
Mouse, I’ve been reading several of your posts on here lately, so I know a bit of background info about you, but I have a couple questions. How many credits do you need? I vaguely remember you saying you had three more semesters, but only about 15 credits to go, but the way the classes fall, you can’t take em in one fell swoop. Is this correct? If so, I don’t have anything to add that others in this thread haven’t already. If not, since you say not having a BS is one of the major drawbacks on your CV, would it be possible to finish school full time. Sure, it’d suck for a year. But I made more money this year (I officially got my BS in May, but started my current job and had all my requirements in January) than I did during the entire five and a half years of college combined.
But, to answer the question you posed in the OP, I’ve only had 3 jobs in my life. KFC in high school, an explosives testing company in college, and my current job. I have been classified as a student worker in my last two jobs, and I love it. They work around my school schedule, and at my current job they even pay for my schooling. I don’t know what your university offers, but it may be something to look into (perhaps even in a different department).
The best job interviews happen when you talk about the new job and not your old jobs. They don’t (and you don’t really) have any stake in your old jobs.
Having done interviews, I’ll agree that desperation is a turnoff. People who just want a job - any job - will leave as soon as greener pastures come along, and nobody wants to spend time and effort training someone who just wants the job to make do while they find something better.
When interviewing for job, I don’t expect them to sell me, but I do ask a lot of questions about the job and the company to find out about what things are like. I ask a lot of questions about what I would be doing, what are the expectations, and try to get a feel for the culture. Companies that stifle at such questions are typically “do as we say and shut up” type companies, which are to be avoided anyway, so it’s no loss.
I have two schools of thought - one is that it is always easier to get a job when you have a job, so you may end up taking the first thing, even if it’s just for now.
The other is that I personally am not without skills or experience. To that end, job interviews and such have changed for me over the past few years, I can be pickier and my skills are sometimes in demand, so it can turn into a wooing situation.
My hubby is always wooed. He has a trade that is seriously in demand with management exeperience so companies fall over themselves now.
Since I’m now on Spouse’s health insurance, an intership is a possiblity. Before, I couldn’t afford the loss of benefits.
One of the biggest hurtles right now is the Household Budget. Mouse_Spouse and I are trying to pay off some bills and get our credit cleaned up. (Identity theft by a parent is a nasty thing to clean up. May my father rot in Hell :mad: )
Yeah, I understand the Household Budget situation, for sure! Before I started my last semester of college, I had over $5k in credit card debt. I was still technically a dependant of my parents for financial aid purposes. So, for my last semester, I took out the largest loan they would let me, and got a set interest rate of ~5%. I used the excess money to completely pay off my credit card, the interest rate on it over three times the student loans. I didn’t have to start paying the student loans until a few months ago, and it looks much better on your credit than cards and such. I understand this may not be an option due to the whole IDT, but it’s worth looking into. (Unless you have already, and I’m just being a nosey asshole)
Its something I have been thinking about. Last year, I was denied financial aid because I didn’t complete a semester (depression/undiagnosed thyroid problem knocked me out). Since then, I have been using my Tuition waiver benefit from the University. (The school I attend is also my employer.) The Waiver only allows for one class at a time, so in December my student loan payments showed up .
Then there’s the mental factors: I’m scared of being a full-time student (turning 30 next month is giving me the wiggins!). Being dependent on Spouse’s income is an uncomfortable idea for me. To top it off, there is the fear that if I leave work for a year I won’t be able to find a job because I was out of work for a year. (Gotta love anxiety. :rolleyes: )
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