Thanks to all who have replied. The general feeling I get is that I ought to do what I feel most comfortable with. I think that if I approach it with the idea that ‘funerals are for the living’ and show due respect for the bereaved it shouldn’t really matter what I do, bar going into the church loudly proclaiming my atheism, which isn’t my style anyway.
I shall certainly stand and bow my head at appropriate moments and I like Apos’ idea of humming in counterpoint to the hymns.
Whatever happens it’s not going to be easy for me, but I suppose that’s a rather selfish view as it’s not going to be easy for anyone, particularly the deceased’s family.
What can we learn from this? We should plan our own funeral in such a way as to ensure maximum enjoyment for all attendees regardless of belief. Quite how I’m not sure, but I’ve plenty of time to think about it. I hope.
I’m not sure you meant to you use the word “enjoyment” there.
I think it would be nice if funerals were geared towards things that were meaningful to everyone, or at least as wide a range of people as possible. But it’s no easy task.
Yes, I did mean enjoyment. What is the point of going to an event to be miserable? I want everyone to be happy at my funeral, even if it means doping the cup cakes.
IMHO with hymns you almost might as well sing - lots of people sing things they don’t agree with just because they like the tune. It’s not binding, especially if it’s chosen as a favorite of the deceased.
With prayer I’m not sure. I can bow my head on the grounds of politeness or agreement with the general sentiment of the prayer, but OTOH at this rate everyone’ll be mouthing it, but no-one’ll have the nerve to stop it.
First, your atheism hopefully is not of the kind that will prohibit like Catholics before from joining in the religious service of others or of any. If it be that kind, then you are an obscurantist fanatic. Apologies for the harsh words.
Now, if you don’t know, then I am telling you that life is all about acting. Aside from physiology, which we also dress up in props and manners, everything is drama. All the world is a stage . . .
So, turn on your theistic mode and join in with the others, do what they do, keep your heart and mind attuned to theirs. And I guarantee you, you will enjoy the experiencec – unless you are an obscurantist fanantical atheist.
1.) Please quit posting your responses above your quoted material. It’s confusing and it’s annoying to have to scroll down to see what your responding to.
2.) Some of us don’t have “theistic modes,” and would feel uncomfortable, insincere and hypocritical if we were to attempt to join in. In some cases we might even feel morally repulsed by certain religious sentiments or rituals.
It is possible to be respectful and unobtrusive without actively and dishonestly participating in rituals we have no personal belief in. This does not make us “fanatics.”
Some people hate funerals more than others. That’s human nature.
Your religious views don’t matter at a funeral and you are not expected to participate unless it is appropriate.
There are 3 possible events you can attend depending on the background of the deceased: a “wake”, a religious ceremony, and a burial. The purpose is to support those in need. It is VERY comforting to have this support, even at the expense of your own sadness. If there is wake AND a religious ceremony, you can just go to the wake.
Actually, there is a real answer to this question, according to etiquette. The “polite thing to do” when attending services at a church that is not your own is to follow along respectfully but without participating in any church ritual you don’t believe in. It is rude to “play-act” at someone’s religion. So:
You cover your head if that is the custom at that particular church
You stand when the congregation stands and sit when they sit
You bow your head when the congregation is praying. If it is a congregation that uses rote spoken prayers (The Lord’s Prayer, for instance), you should remain silent. You shouldn’t cross yourself at the end, or say ‘amen.’
If it’s a congregation with a call-response type of service (with the minister speaking, and then the congregation responding), you stand quietly and don’t respond along, especially with such things as the Apostle’s Creed, etc.
You do not take communion. At a funeral or wedding, there will be plenty of people not taking communion, so just remain seated when any people in your pew go up front – of course, you turn your knees to the side and sort of srunch up to let them pass.
I used the atheist/agnostic model in these examples. If a religious person is visting another denomination, they can pick and choose what rituals they can embrace fully. A Baptist at a Lutheran funeral, for instance, should feel fine reciting the Lord’s Prayer.
Singing is a gray area – if you like to sing, feel free. Otherwise, stand quietly (or hum, if you want to).
I wouldn’t advocate that. I mean, honestly, those closest to the deceased probably do not care, as the funeral is not about you.
Just be respectful of the religious tradition of the deceased. I am a very religious person and have had difficult times at funerals of those who were not religious. So its not just you. But ultimately the thing you need to remember is to respect those around you. If you do not draw attention to yourself no one will notice.
Interesting - that’s almost exactly what I do in such situations. I always thought I was just observing common sense; I had no idea there were actual rules for such things.
Hear hear. Do what you feel appropriate, but really, really don’t make a big deal out of it. Keep your mouth shut.
I’ve never heard this before. Is it? What defines play-acting? If you consider, say, wearing a yarmulke or standing and sitting at the appropriate times to be OK, why is singing along or joining in with the words inappropriate? Isn’t that a bit arbitrary? Where do you draw the line?
Just go and show respect. If you are not immediate family the occasion is most defiantly about you or your feeling towards the religion of the person getting buried.
I’m a stone cold atheist but have no problem with standing, kneeing etc. when appropriate, why should I? I act in accordance with bullshit rules all the time in social situations so these are no different IMO.
Well, the line has to be drawn somewhere. I think everyone can agree that staying quiet in church is right. And deliberately proclaiming a belief falsely isn’t (mostly). How would you do it? I think different people draw the line in different places, and we mostly get along ok.
I said above what I do: just sing along, mumble the prayers, etc. What you call “falsely proclaiming” I call “just going along with things”. Same as standing up, sitting down and kneeling at various times - it’s all part of a ritual in which I have no belief. If I don’t believe in it, what harm can it do me?
However, I had never considered the possibility that by actually joining in the ritual it could be considered “rude”. Though I kind of feel that by this argument, surely a non-believer even attending a religious service in a place of worship is there under false pretenses?
What you did was fine. As long as you don’t disrupt the service for anyone else, you are not required to participate in anything. In most Christian traditions, you should definitely not receive the elements of the Eucharist (the bread and wine), as this is Christians only.
Nobody is going to look down on you if you don’t join in the prayers or the hymns, mostly because nobody will notice.
You seem to have shown a good deal of respect for the feelings of those who were worshipping. Good for you.
I don’t see how this can be. It suggests that because I don’t believe I should be excluded from paying my respects to the deceased. Which of course is what a funeral is about and something that I want to do. This is one of the reasons I became an atheist in the first place, ie religion can be divisive.
Oh I agree with you totally. It’s just the assertion that it’s actually rude for a non-believer to join in with certain parts of the ceremony that I’m trying to parse.
Sorry, I wasn’t clear. I meant something like "You in the back there, with the double j, stand up and say ‘I believe God is our saviour and if the deceased doubted that he’s in hell,’ " not just mumbling in a group.
It doesn’t happen at funerals, and as doesn’t shouting in a church service (if everyone’s being polite)
