What Should I Say I Am? Religion-Wise

I’ve been thinking about how I can classify myself, to other people. I know what I think, but it doesn’t fit in with the general consensus, although maybe I’m overlooking a term I could use?

I was brought up in a Catholic household, with a very, very small ‘c’. My mother’s quite devout; she goes to church every Sunday, helps out on Wednesday, actually visits people who are going to have their child baptised (I didn’t know that, until it came up in conversation last year). My dad was Church of England but converted to Catholic before he married my mother. He goes with her to church, wears a cross, is quite ‘religious’, but doesn’t go out of his way.

It was early when I began to have doubts about all that kind of thing. I think I was about 6 or 7 when I realised saying ‘Goodnight, good bless’ was actually ‘Goodnight’, God bless’. As soon as I understood the words I stopped saying them. I had no pressure, at least that which I perceived, to believe, practice or in any way accept my saviour etc. Early reading, to me and then to my mother, was Aesop’s Fables, which we’d regularly read every night for a long time, maybe ages 5 to 8.

I’ve been, pretty much, ‘out of the loop’, where religions are concerned so I don’t know if those stories are from religious texts. I work in the Middle East, now, and sometimes reference movies I wish I hadn’t (Ben Hur or The Ten Commandments - not sure which), because of the religious content. I’ve stopped referring to films I enjoyed as a kid, unless I definitely know they definitely aren’t anything to do with religion. Apart from Monty Python’s, and then only with other westerners.

I do believe, in all seriousness, that there is life after our death. I’ve ‘experienced’ the paranormal, for want of a better word, on one occasion. My brother has several times, my sister had on numerous occasions. My parents haven’t. My brother and sister are both older (9/10 years) than me, and so I heard of their experiences when I was young, and didn’t really believe them, to be honest. My sister has had plenty of experiences, seeing ghosts, being freaked out, fainting, until our mother said she should tell them to ‘Go away, I don’t want you near me’ and they stopped. I think it was around 20+ years until she stopped talking about it. She’s married, two lovely boys, and seems pretty happy. It started when she was 3, cycling around the living room at night (mum and dad had gone to bed) with ‘the nice lady’, in the pitch black. When they decided to move out ‘the nice lady’ pushed a wardrobe onto her cot, the day before they moved ‘the nice lady’ removed all of the kitchen cupboards from the walls. That was the start of her meetings, which continued until she was in her mid twenties.

I ‘met’ a ‘ghost’ one time, and it really freaked me out. I was 22, cleaning an office in an old mansion. It’s the administration of a children’s hospital but there’s no link there. To cut a long story short, she didn’t want me there. I had the whole hairs raised, cold feeling (on a hot day) down my back, empty office in an old mansion, nasty voice (not heard, seen, but felt) telling me to “Get out… Get Out… GET OUT GET OUT GET OUT!!”

I ran, found my brother, who saw me and immediately asked “Want a coffee? How you doing?” It turned out he’d also ‘met’ her a few times, as had a lot of the other workers in the building. Apparently she’d lived there over a hundred year before and was killed, thrown from a balcony. I’d just graduated and his contract cleaning business was in its early days, I was helping him out until he got reliable staff. I worked there for a while, not on that floor again, before getting a job more in line with my degree. I was just there part-time and had no long-term interest - i.e. it just happened to me. I’d not had anything like that happen before, or since, but they (my brother’s and sister’s ‘tales’) took on a whole, new meaning.

So, my question is this - I now believe there is a life after death, another reality, a thing we don’t understand and the Bible, Scriptures, Koran etc don’t accurately portray just what it is. I cannot, either, but I’m pretty sure they cause more problems than my view does. I think ‘atheist’ is too strong a word, ‘agnostic’ does me no credit. If people ask I say I’m Catholic. Is there a better term to say ‘I believe in life after death, just none of the established religions make any sense to me’?

Spiritualist* is the closest term that I can think of. Whether or not you believe in God would determine if you call yourself an atheist, theist, or agnostic.

Regards,
Shodan

*Spiritualist means two things - that you believe in ghosts, and that you are about to buried under several dozen Dopers all telling you that you didn’t experience what you think you did.

If I were you I would just say “I’m spiritual, not religious” and keep mum about all the ghosts.

Spiritualist? I don’t know much about religion, as I said, but it sounds a bit wishy-washy. I was cornered by someone on the subway, when I was around 16, who wanted to preach the Bible to me. I said something like ‘We all have our own God in us’ and he was pretty upset, and said ‘You students are all the same!’ Yeah, right, I walked away.

I appreciate the scepticism from other Dopers, my and my siblings’ experiences aren’t quite normal, in that respect. Otherwise, my brother and sister both are married, both have two sons (my nephews’ ages are from 12 to 23), I’m the only one with a tertiary education (and teach in a University, if that helps), but probably earn a little (or a lot) less than they do.

Out family are all Christian, I’ve not had this conceptual discussion with anyone. Our parents attend church regularly, my sister was married in a church (and her sons go to bell ringing practice every week with our mother), my brother in a legal ceremony. I got married in Vegas, divorced in the UK. It seems the later we were born, the less we go to church.

Maybe I should talk with my sister more about her meetings, although it’s tricky as she’s very close to my mother and I wouldn’t want to tarnish their relationship with ‘ungodlike’ subjects.

I’m not sure what question you are asking.

Are you asking, “what is the thing I could describe myself as which is fairly accurate, to respond to strangers wanting to know what church I belong to?”
Which in my view should be as brief as possible.

Or, “what should I tell my believing family about my current feelings about spirituality and Christianity?”
Which might open a big can o’ worms.

Or even, “what exactly IS my current belief?”
That might be an even bigger worm can, but no one can answer that question but yourself.

And, I’ve talked with a few people who’ve lost partners. When I talk about my family’s experiences with ‘ghosts’ they seem more content, happier, at least when we’re speaking.

It’s not Snake Oil I’m trying to sell. I don’t want your credit card details. I’m being completely frank here, more so than I can do IRL. I was as sceptical as anyone, even though my brother and sister had told me about their experiences, until I had my own. That moment was visceral, I had a physical reaction to just the memory for years after, and I was more frightened than I’ve ever been before or since. That spirit wanted me out, and she wanted it worse than I could imagine.

I remember the time, temperature, how the light mottled in the tree leaves when I was running from the mansion to where I thought my brother was working - the mansion was the admin, the kids’ wings are built in the grounds, separate buildings. I remember how, at first, I felt a coolness on my back and continued vacuuming the room. The the forcefulness which made me drop the machine and run, down the hallway, the stairs, out into the bright, late autumn sunlight. All I wanted was too find my brother, to get away from that thing in there.

I’ve done bungy jumps, flown a few airplanes, taken naughty tablets, driven when I shouldn’t. But that was the scariest moment of my life. No one before then had even mentioned any ghost or presence, I was completely unaware and, so, totally shocked by the feelings I’d never had before, or since. I can remember ever feeling, thought and action from the day. Now it isn’t scary; just a momentary lapse in reason.

“I’m spiritual but not religious” means something different from “I am a spiritualist”. The first is, as you and I agree, is kind of wishy-washy. The second means “I believe in ghosts”, which is what I got from your OP.

If you believe that God exists, you are a theist. If you believe that God does not exist, you are an atheist. If you don’t know if God exists, you are an agnostic. If you nitpick the question to death and draw all kinds of finicky distinctions to avoid being pinned down into anything definite so that nobody can say “Cite?”. you are a Doper.

Regards,
Shodan

Yes, pollsters would assign you to the category, spriritual but not religious: you can google it.

If you say you are a Catholic, a lapsed Catholic or that you grew up in the Catholic church, that might also work. When people ask what religion you are, you are not obliged to self-disclose more than you want to. Personally, I think agnostic could also cover your situation, depending upon mood and social context. The term was initially invented IIRC, to step outside of the atheist/theist categories FWIW. Huxley:

When I reached intellectual maturity and began to ask myself whether I was an atheist, a theist, or a pantheist; a materialist or an idealist; Christian or a freethinker; I found that the more I learned and reflected, the less ready was the answer; until, at last, I came to the conclusion that I had neither art nor part with any of these denominations, except the last. The one thing in which most of these good people were agreed was the one thing in which I differed from them. They were quite sure they had attained a certain "gnosis"–had, more or less successfully, solved the problem of existence; while I was quite sure I had not, and had a pretty strong conviction that the problem was insoluble. And, with Hume and Kant on my side, I could not think myself presumptuous in holding fast by that opinion ...

So I took thought, and invented what I conceived to be the appropriate title of "agnostic". It came into my head as suggestively antithetic to the "gnostic" of Church history, who professed to know so much about the very things of which I was ignorant. ... To my great satisfaction the term took.

Shodan, I believe there’s another side, and those who inhabit it could be called gods - they can do stuff we can’t. Just like science in 100 years from now, now would be called magic.

Those on the other side may be referred to as ghosts, God, or Hades. I think they are there, so I guess I’m a theist. That’s a start!

I guess I’m asking what religion can I connect with that doesn’t follow the rules of some book, written 100s of years ago, without me saying I’m an atheist? Where I am, now, in the Middle East, being an atheist is worse than being a Christian (or Jew, probably, but it doesn’t come up in conversation). I think a lot of people I work with are atheists, a lot are Muslim, a lot are Christians. We don’t talk about religion, unless it’s absolutely necessary, which it hasn’t been in my fifth year here.

I think I want to know is if there are many/any other people who have the same beliefs as I do? That there is a god/gods, what we ‘know’ about them is incorrect, that they are not omnipotent, actually they are just spirits with little more powers than we have, and we’re far too far down the food chain to actually be able to pray to the highest ‘God’ ourselves?

Maybe that’s my question. I haven’t thought it out until tonight.

I would say “I believe in ghosts and supernatural spirits.”

And then they’d ask, naturally, why?

I had this discussion with a class here - Muslims, in Saudi Arabia, also believe in ghosts - and i talked about it naturally, organically. Another class asked me about it and I couldn’t, it felt contrived, like a show; ‘See the foreigner talk about ghosts’. I can wax lyrical about the weather in the northern hemisphere, the migration of burdened swallows, but not something I have so much emotional attachment with.

Can I be a Christian, but doubt the words in the Bible?

You can call yourself Unitarian - since we don’t care what you believe - if you feel like you need a word. If you need a description for your belief sets “spiritual but not religious” seems to work.

Frankly, in general, no one gives a damn about what you believe. What is your religion is a social icebreaker made to know whether to invite you to the church potluck and set you up with their french braid and poofy sleeved fifteen year old niece or burn a cross on your lawn or just feel people out about their place on the spectrum. And “not Christian” works about as well as any more detailed answer 90+% of the time for people who don’t go to church and aren’t big on Jesus.

If you are looking for a group of like minded folks, then it starts to be worthwhile to define yourself a little better.

It sounds like you’re breaking your own trail. You’re a “JustinCist” or “JustinCite.”

You might describe yourself as a “Deist.” My parents were both “Naïve Deists.” They believed there had to be something more “out there somewhere” but didn’t know what, and couldn’t discuss their beliefs analytically.

There are quite a few, although you limit yourself when you toss in the ghosts. That puts you into a category with a lot fewer people. Like I say, you’re really carving your own new path into the wilderness.

If you did meet someone who seemed, at first, to share your beliefs, I have a very strong suspicion you’d soon come to ideas where you would disagree.

(“I said, ‘Die, heretic,’ and I pushed him over.”)

I appreciate some people won’t accept a belief other than theirs - this is my fifth year in the Middle East. I’ve only mentioned my feelings on the Straight Dope, because there are enormously intelligent people on here and many are very experienced.

I don’t want to offend anyone - everything I’ve written here is completely true and from my heart. If it doesn’t tally with yours, then I apologise. I’m not trying to influence anyone, just finding a few answers would be good.

Before I went full bore atheist I would answer, “I have no idea, but I’m pretty sure everyone gets it wrong.”

Nothing wrong with saying, “I don’t know, I’m working on it.”

Didn’t read while thread, but this quiz

might help you identify your religious label.

let’s not forget the Holy Ghost.

If you just want an answer for your colleagues and it needs to be a religion, I would say “catholic” They don’t need to hear the lower-case “c”.

If you actually want to find a group to worship with, or at least to share spiritual ground with, I think you should investigate the Mormons (seriously), the Wiccans, and the Buddhists. Maybe Hindus and Shinto, as well. But most of those won’t be good answers for your colleagues.

Well, if you’re just looking for an answer that you can give co-workers and neighbors that won’t get you preached to or jailed for blasphemy (no joke - atheism can get you a thousand lashes in Saudi Arabia), you could just say, “I’d rather not say”. Or simply “Nunya”.

My sister always answers “Independent.”