What the hell is there no choice between extremely pretentious or very white-bread?

You know, I decided to start this in the pit, because I’m sure someone will think I’m attacking America or Americans, but I’m not. But I’ve noticed a few things in my time in Europe that’s always pissed me off about my home country.

Like the title says, why the hell is there no middle of the road alternatives for damn near everything? This is more likely to be true to a larger extent in the so-called “Middle America” but I still hate the dichotomy that seems to be forced here. It seems to be just a petty extension of one side of America trying as hard as it can to differentiate itself from the other.

And in this instance, I think this is mainly the fault of the pretentious folk. But there is definitely a white-bread backlash too. Let’s start with the stupid Starbucks, anti-starbucks rant here. This is most clearly defined in my hometown. All of the conservative types would never be caught dead in there, yet it is considered a hangout for those with an aggrandized sense of self-importance. The type that having gotten a B in French 202 gives them license to pepper their phrases with stupid little snippets of poorly pronounced French. Yes, I speak foreign languages, quite well thank you very much, but I also don’t parade it around like a fucking merit badge either. And why, oh why, do they have to have stupid, intentionally funky names? Like the type that would sound perfect rolling off the tongue of a mid-thirties married ex-hippie? A friend of mine likes to call the local coffee shop “Funky Brewsters” because this really typifies what kind of name they usually all have. Then lets get on to Starbucks. I don’t care if you hang out in Starbucks, I know you think it’s a cool place to meet up and hang out, but it makes me sick.

Now what would you see in Europe? Well, it’s quite simple, go to any Cafe in Amsterdam, Berlin, Paris, etc, and they will be essentially the same. Nobody gets any perceived sense of superiority from going to one of these places. Guess what? They are totally comfortable with having coffee in a cafe and have been doing so for generations. Why is it that when we import it to America that we have to attach some idiotic sense of superiority?

Oh yes, and to the white-bread folks, I’m not gonna let you slide. I know the contrived bunch really piss you off, but do you have to take it in the negative extreme direction? Does eating a fucking hamburger with 2000 calories really make you any better off for doing so? There’s really nothing wrong with eating a salad with something other than ranch dressing, I promise. I know it’s a very difficult line to walk to enjoy some of the finer things without picking up the traits associated with it. But guess what? It won’t kill you to watch a movie that isn’t in English some times. And back to the pretentious lot, it won’t kill you to watch a fucking Hollywood movie either. Trust me, we’re all REALLY impressed you can watch amelie without the subtitles, but you don’t need to deprive yourself of less artsy fare.

I guess the reason why I’m harder on the pretentious type is because it’s really not necessary to shove your superiority down our throats. The white-bread reaction, to me is basically a reaction to this. The sad thing is that I enjoy foreign and independent films, but I just hate to be associated with people who think it makes them a better person. But still, don’t fucking undermine anything that isn’t “down home” I get looks of, “Well, who the hell does he think HE is?” When I go home and mention something about my travels. I’m not trying to say I’m better than you, chill out. Just because I mention that I like German beer, doesn’t mean I won’t drink Budweiser ever again. The fact that I put gel in my hair doesn’t make me think I’m superior either, get over it. Ever hear of being fucking open to new things? I got so sick of the way people acted in my college. Many of my friends had the most intolerant view of what people should drive, eat, dress, and how they should act. Yeah, you look great, man! You dress exactly like your dad does now with baggy khaki pants and a polo shirt and dock shoes. I wonder if this will continue indefinitely?

And (back to the artsy types) when you go to General Chang’s in the food court, don’t act like you are offending your friends back in the East when you use a knife and fork. Sorry but that was from an old post I remembered.

Oh, and for the actual artists out there. You don’t need to constantly look down on those of us who aren’t artistic. Just because I can’t create anything, doesn’t mean I don’t understand it.

Why am I ranting so? Well it’s pretty simple. I wish there were more people like me. I like to do all of those things that the pretentious elite like, but I also don’t want to fucking give myself a pat on the back every time I drink a coffee with foam. I’d like to discuss music with you guys who know a lot more than I do, but I don’t want to be denigrated because I’m late to get to know them. I don’t want to feel like a weirdo because I have a slightly less retrograde sense of fashion. I don’t want to have to pick a “scene” Why the hell do I have to let my taste define who I am? I’d much rather my experiences and beliefs define who I am. And just because I may not know who is who, or what is going on, it doesn’t mean that you have to act like I’m an idiot. Maybe I’ve got other interests and concerns in my life, and why can’t you respect that?

Why the hell am I writing this thread? Because that’s why I became fed up with living in America. I didn’t want to be forced into any particular subsector of society. I enjoy weird and interesting music, but when I try to associate with such people they look down on me. I like to hang out with country-folk, and do typical redneck things, but I don’t want to be looked upon as some kind of uppity, I-think-I’m-better-than-you, kind of guy. I’m not. But why the hell can’t you respect my opinion as not being a threat to yours? I don’t sit around talking about how much better everyone is than you, so don’t act like I want to. Maybe I want to go to an organic foodstore, but maybe I’d rather not get into a conversation about how it’s idiotic to buy anything but organic food. I’d like my food, not a fucking shared sense of superiority.

Granted, I haven’t been everywhere in America, but I’ve been loads of places and met people from many more. Maybe there are places where it isn’t so prevalent. I can think of a few, actually.

Why did I even bring Europe into this? Mainly because it seems to be absent here. And really, I blame this on a lack of identity in America. People will do anything to construe an identity for themselves, where in Europe it is pretty well-defined as most communities are pretty homogeneous going back a very long time. There are a lot of things I like about America too, don’t get me wrong. I am not claiming that Europe is superior, but it’s a valid point of reference.

When you make a bon mot like that, are you saying you’re better than me?

I’ve got no idea at all what you’re talking about.

Why do you hate America?

Yeah, I remember my first akvavit.

You fell asleep halfway through that screed, too, didn’t you?

Just thought I’d clarify that I’m not actually Danish, changed my profile to be more accurate

Ah, akvavit. He might be on his fourth or fifth.

Dude, I think I understand what you’re on about here, at least as well as an old man can. I don’t quite get why you’re so worked up about it. Did you really leave the counrty over this nonsense? It is possible to pursue your own eclectic interests without paying much attention to the pretensions or anti-pretensions of others. It takes some confidence in yourself and your tastes. Nobody is cool because of what the drink or where they hang out.

I’m sorry, I’m having trouble understanding what you’re trying to say in your OP. The basic gist seems to be that you hate classism. If this is the case, then join the club! But you’d be silly to assume it doesn’t exist in other countries besides the U.S.

Am I reading this wrong? Who the hell thinks they’re superior because they go to Starbucks? It’s the McDonalds of coffee.

Baby rapers should be shot.

And the CEO of Starbucks is upset about this. He recently sent a memo around the company saying they had to get back to their pretentious roots.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/business/articles/0228biz-starbucks0228.html

Only the ones who are pretentious about it.

Or not pretentious enough.

I came in here expecting to tell him where to find whole wheat bread. :o

As for me, I like what I like: 2% milk, not necessarily because it’s more healthful, but because it’s more thirst-quenching. Balsamic vinaigrette dressing, not because I want to impress anyone, but because with an Italian-cuisine meal, it tastes great – and peppercorn ranch, not because it was a fad, but because coarse-grated pepper accents ranch dressing and tastes terrific. I eat beef hot dogs because I like the taste. And by preference I drink Folger’s Colombian – because it’s the right taste in coffee for me. If I’ve been on the road for 12 hours, the strong generic-ground coffee that they put on the warmer when I started is OK to keep me awake, but if I have my preference, it’s the full but mellow flavor of Colombian (and Folgers is enough tastier than the store brand to warrant the ~20c/pound difference).

In short, I’m not out to impress anyone nor to be impressed by anyone; I like what I like, whether it’s lowbrow or haut-garde avant cuisine :wink:

I blame Grey Poupon.

Europe was a hotbed of Nazi-ism at least couple of generations ago. I didn’t like that and I didn’t think it is right for white-bread Europeans suddenly decide to commit geneocide. Milan has more McDonalds than I have even ever seen in my life bar none.

How do you respond to that and what is your defense?

Oh dear. Not only did I enjoy the rant, but it called to mind several recent threads where it seemed people were taking opposing sides just for the pleasure of the debate. Not the style of discussion I enjoy, but plenty of people seem to.

Merkwurdigliebe, I’d bet you’ll soon begin to tune out all the voices who feel they must box people in as either “this” or “that,” and instead begin to hear people who’ve enjoyed a variety of experiences, as you seem to have. What we see so often depends on what we expect to see.

Starbucks?? Dude, we haven’t got time for a handjob.