Here’s a little parable that this subforum brings to mind:
"Five Monkeys were put in a large cage with a flight of steps, on the top of which was a banana. Soon a Monkey saw the banana and began up the steps to get it. All the Monkeys were sprayed with water. This stopped that Monkey and upset all the other Monkeys as well. Every time any Monkey attempted to climb the stairs to get the banana, all the Monkeys were sprayed with water. Before long, if one of them tried to climb the stairs, all the others would attack him and stop him. At this point, water spraying was no longer necessary.
Then one of the Monkeys was replaced with a new Monkey who had no experience of stairs, the banana or water spraying. Very soon the new Monkey saw the banana and headed for it. The other four Monkeys attacked him and stopped him. After a few more tries, he gave up. Then a second one of the original Monkeys was replaced with a new one. When he noticed the banana, he too jumped onto the steps to get it, and was attacked by the others. The first new Monkey joined in the attack on the second new Monkey enthusiastically.
Then a third Monkey was replaced, and, when he attempted the stairs for the banana, all the others attacked him until the third Monkey no longer made any such attempt. The same thing happened when the fourth Monkey and then the fifth Monkey were in turn replaced. Now there were five new Monkeys preventing each other from climbing the stairs, completely accepting that none of them may climb the stairs or have the banana. Even though not one of them had any idea why."
Speaking of which, do you happen to know what kind of martial arts pressure point techniques work well against wet, angry monkeys? (I am asking on behalf of a friend)
It’s a sick place, and its sickness makes me sad. It makes me wonder how much malice is hiding beneath the surface of the people I deal with every day, and just how deep it goes. Certainly none of you bring this kind of energy to your interactions IRL. Why not process the malice in some more productive way? So many of you seem to glory in it. How is that helping you in the long run? What is it accomplishing?
ROFL Their anatomy is pretty much the same as yours. The same points work, although I’d be careful fighting monkeys. They were never taught that “biting is bad”, and even the dirtiest streetfighter is unlikely to just try to bite parts of you off at random.
It’s an anonymous message board on the anonymous internet. Where else to vent if not here? In case you haven’t noticed, many people have been here a long time. Weee likessss iiiittttt hheeere.
I’m also the monkey who shits in her own hand and then throws it at random idiots. Watch out, there’s another one with a gun running around here, too. Don’t be too sure some of us aren’t just as obnoxious IRL. I tend to say what others are thinking, it really does relieve tension in the room.
Well, you raised several points. Let me address each one in turn.
Do you think that all the venting here is of equal value?
Oh, I don’t doubt that a few people here are about the same as their IRL selves. None of the worst offenders do that stuff IRL, though. I mean, maybe that behavior flies in Chicago, Massachusetts, or South Florida, but…
Sure, saying what everyone is thinking-but-not-saying can be therapeutic. That’s not what the worst offenders here are usually doing, though, wouldn’t you agree?
There were three monkeys on a branch high up in a very tall tree. The first monkey fell out of the tree. Why? Because he died. About ten minutes later, the second monkey fell out of the tree. Why? Because he died. About five minutes after the second monkey died and fell, the third monkey fell out of the tree. Why? Peer pressure.
OP: Meditate on this much shorter story than yours.
But one can’t vent here either! When you come here to vent about the dickheads you have to deal with in real life (retail cashiers, street people, etc. AKA failures) you are complaining about the average Dopers brethren.
So rather than understanding that by venting here you remain, like me, a sweetheart teddy bear in real life (because you “got it all out” here) they attack you.
You wind up trying to justify your frustrations and why you’re venting, but intellectual knowitalls couldn’t possibly care less and will continue to attack you.
Eventually you’ll not vent it here but vent it in real life and not only become prick, but make people in your real life miserable.
Then someone will come on these boards and bitch about you and they’ll get attacked.
And so on, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on, an so on, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on, an so on, and so on, and so on, and so on, an so on, and so on, and so on, ETC!:mad:
The experiment mentioned in the OP is the one given in the following article:
Stephenson, G. R. (1967). Cultural acquisition of a specific learned response among rhesus monkeys. In: Starek, D., Schneider, R., and Kuhn, H. J. (eds.), Progress in Primatology, Stuttgart: Fischer, pp. 279-288.
It’s hard to find a concise explanation of the experiment, but it appears that the description of the experiment given in the OP is not accurate. Maybe somebody else can find a good account of the experiment. I’ve seen the description of this experiment many times before. It appears very commonly in management technique books and presentations. I think we should go back to the original experiment and quit talking about the distorted version of it given in those books and presentations.
I presume it’s intended to show to some aspect of groupthink, or blind faith say?
The thing is, even in the OP’s version, the monkeys’ behaviour is quite rational, assuming that a “squirt” of water is sufficiently unpleasant to a monkey.
It’s a good thing that the culture retains the information “don’t go up there” even when no individuals remaining have received the unpleasant stimulus.
It only becomes sub-optimal if that behaviour never changes. But I doubt that would happen, given how curious primates are.
(Yeah, I know I’m taking this more seriously than the OP probably intended, but it’s more interesting to talk about the experiment than just a standard you-guys-all-suck rant)
It’s because they would get fire hosed if one of them tried to get the banana. Their ancestors, their “Founding Fathers” if you will, those wise old monkeys who knew all about the hose and the banana, chose to enforce a banana free society.
As time went on, we forgot the lessons of our fathers, forgot the basis of our most important laws. One day, society will crumble to the point where a monkey will be allowed to grasp the forbidden banana. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
I weep for the future, for it is a future of wet monkeys.