What to look for in a used car?

In My Humble Opinion
1

I will be buying a used, sorry, pre-owned, car this weekend. My budget is very limited, therefore so are my options. I know what I’m looking for: sedan or hatchback, 2002 or newer, preferrably under 110K miles, automatic, 6-cylinder. There is a general group of cars that I like: Impalas, Intrepids, Grand Prix - IOW, stable, meaty looking, sturdy cars. Not quite boats, but close enough.

I have some idea what to look for when kicking tires - rust and lack thereof, evidence of damage repair, not a salvage title, and how it runs when taking it out for a test drive. However, in the past I have had my dad with when I went to look at cars (hell, actually, he’s picked out all of my past cars), and he’s now gone. I do have an auto mechanic friend, but he’s unable to join the hunt.

What else should I look for? Any tricks when taking it for a test drive? Is there anything specific I should ask the dealer? Do you have any cars that you would recommend I stay away from? Any advice would be much appreciated.

2

Well how much money do you have? They are still selling new Impalas.

If you like Impalas and Intrepids then either of them are a decent choice if you’re looking to spend under $5k, but if you can spend more it’s probably better to do so and get something newer. I’m more familiar with the Intrepid, and if you get one, try and get maintainence records for a transmission flush and for the 3.5l engine(the best engine), a timing belt and water pump change. I would probably stay away from the 2.7l engine, it can be all right if you bought one new and are very careful with maintainence but for a older used car best to avoid it.

3

$5K is exactly my price point.

I noticed after I posted this thread, there is another one similar - oops

4

My parents bought used cars most of their lives. My dad’s strategy was to look for cars that are just a few years old but have a lot of miles on them. His reasoning was that this scenario ensures that most of the miles are probably highway driving, which is the least stressful for a car: the car experiences fewer cold starts (which is when most engine wear-and-tear happens), doors/brakes/etc. see fewer cycles of application, the engine doesn’t go through so many green-light jackrabbit launches, and so on.

In addition, high miles seem to scare off a lot of buyers, lowering the price. Basically you can end up with a car that’s in pretty good shape for a pretty low price.

So if you see a car that’s five years old with 100,000 miles on it, it’s probably worth checking out. If it’s ten years old with 100K on it, that’s more like “average;” it may still be worth checking out, but is not likely to be as good a value.

5

If you are willing to buy a 4-cylinder, the number of used cars available will increase dramatically. Today’s 4-cylinder engines aren’t the same as the 4-bangers of old. They have much more power than in the past.

Also consider getting something like a CarFax done on any potential vehicles. After all the storm flooding up around New York/New Jersey there’s a lot of damaged vehicles on the market. Some goes with cars from around New Orleans and Katrina.

Having a mechanic overlook the car could be money well spent.

6

My grandfather and my dad were both mechanics for the first part of their careers, then became car dealers. I grew up at my grandpa’s dealership and worked in the auto industry in one capacity or another for over 10 years until I earned my insurance license and became an agent.

I have compiled a listing of the cars that I recommend based on your budget and the reliability history and safety record of each model! You will notice that I didn’t limit my recommendations to only models with 6-cylinder engines. I’m not sure why you feel a 6-cylinder is necessary, but rest assured that every 4-cylinder vehicle listed below will accelerate faster, get better gas mileage, be simpler to maintain and very likely last longer than the base 6-cylinder you will find in an Impala, Intrepid, Taurus or Grand Prix!

I highly recommend you limit your search to these specific years, makes and models-

2002-2005 Buick Century
2002-2004 Buick Regal

2002-2006 Ford Taurus
2002-2005 Mercury Sable

2005-2007 Ford Focus

2005-2006 Ford Five Hundred (avoid AWD models)

2002-2005 Saturn L-series (L100, L200 or L300)

2001-2003 Mazda Protégé or Protégé5

2004-2006 Mitsubishi Galant

2000-2002 Honda Accord LX

2002-2004 Nissan Altima

The two Buicks listed are very similar in design and use the same engine, transmission, etc. The Century was the more basic, plain one and the Regal tends to be the better looking one with more features.

The Ford Taurus and Mercury Sable were twins built on the same assembly line and identical expect for their sheetmetal and very minor interior design differences. The Sable was dropped after 2005, but the Taurus actually soldiered on thru the 2007 model year. 2007 models were ‘fleet-only’ sales, so I wouldn’t go newer than a 2006.

The Ford Focus was introduced for 2001 and carried on with only minor changes all the way thru 2011! The earlier ones had some reliability issues, but by 2005 they were one of the most reliable domestic models on the market! They are considered compacts, but they have tons of interior room and there were four body styles available during the 2005-2007 model years- a 2-door Hatchback, 4-door Sedan, 4-door Hatchback or 4-door Wagon.

The Ford Five Hundred was introduced for 2005 as the intended replacement for the Taurus AND the Crown Victoria. It was a very nice driving vehicle, very comfortable interior and lots of interior room and trunk space. But the exterior design fell somewhere between dull and anonymous…virtually invisible. It eventually morphed into the current Taurus, but the first few model years (2005-2006) a great deal because they experienced worst-in-class depreciation.

The 2002-2005 Saturn L-Series is definitely and oddball and the majority of folks have never heard of them or couldn’t tell you anything about them. But a well-maintained, lower mileage model can be an exceptional used car value! They have names such as L200 and L300. They were Saturn’s attempt at a mid-size sedan, borrowed directly from one of GM’s European divisions but with Saturn’s dent-resistant polymer panels covering the exterior and making it resemble the smaller SL sedans. Saturn’s unique body panels have the paint color molded-in, so you will probably notice that any of tthese you find still look very good compared to other cars form the same years! I found a 2003 L200 for my niece’s first car and got it for $5900 almost two years ago with just 62k miles on it! She still loves it and it just turned 100k miles and going strong!

Now for the ‘import’ recommendations, and these are the vehicles that I would personally try to find-

The Mazda Protege (sedan) and Protege5 (wagon/hatch) were the predecessors to exceptional Mazda3 line. They were built to a very high quality standard and they are usually very well taken care of- shiny paint, spotless seats and carpeting…it’s obvious that the previous owner(s) pampered these cars! The engine and transmissions used in these are similar to the ones found in the Ford Focus and have a rock-solid reliability record and routinely last well past 200k miles with only regular oil and fluid changes!

The Mitsubishi Galant is a total wallflower. When it was introduced for 2004, the design looked a bit odd, but not ugly by any means. By 2006, which was it’s 3rd model year, it looked outdated compared to the Altima and Accord. But it has a great reliability history and they drive quite well and get good gas mileage. By 2007, the significant majority of Galants were going straight from the assembly plant in Michigan to every car rental agency the country!

2000-2002 Honda Accord LX- I found a 2001 LX 4-door with 72k miles on it near me for $5300. Basically ANY Accord or Civic with a clean CarFax and/or AutoCheck report and a clean bill of health from a mechnic is an exellent choice for any used car buyer!

The 2002-2004 Nissan Altima sold like hotcakes from the day they rolled onto dealer lots. They are one of the most reliable sedans on the market and they are the best looking and most stylish mid-size sedan out there!

All of my recommendations are ranked as having Good, Very Good or Excellent reliability by Consumer Reports and TrueDelta.com, a site that collects auto repair data! As you shared, you have a limited budget of $5k and you don’t want to spend the $5k only to need $1000 in repairs six or eight months from now. So buying the BEST car you can for $5k is very important.

Continuing that line of thought, don’t even consider a Dodge Intrepid or ANY Chrysler or Dodge vehicle…period. I could spent hours locating verifiable data, class action suits and other proof to show just how many problems these cars can have and that many of these problems never get resolved…the 2.7L engine found in most lower-end Intrepids and recent Dodge Avengers and Chrysler Sebrings has an inherent flaw in design that results in the dreaded engine killer known as ‘sludge’. Prior to 2005, even the Chrysler/Dodge dealers would tell you they had never seen make it to 100k miles without blowing the engine or total transmission failure…and God help the poor soul who buys it if one is out there because it’s a ticking time bomb…avoid like the plague!

I personally like how the Impala drives and it has a very comfortable (and huge) interior. But every model year dating back to 2003 (as far I can go back) has a reliability rating of Much Worse Than Average by Consumer Reports! =( Ditto for the Grand Prix (and the Malibu and Grand Am)!

There are TWO things that you ABSOLUTELY MUST do before you buy any car-

1- Ask the seller/dealer to provide you with a Carfax and AutoCheck report that was generated and printed within the past seven days! If you find a car you absolutely love and, for whatever reason, can’t get the seller to order those two history reports. Take the time to go online and order both reports at your own expense ($35 for Carfax and $30 for AutoCheck). Wasting $65 sure as hell beats buying a car with a hidden history of damage and problems!

2- No matter how good it looks and drives, even if your gut-feeling is that it has never missed an oil change, air filter replacement and/or radiator flushing…you are NOT a mechanic! My own rule is that I will not buy any vehicle that has been owned even for a single day by someone else UNTIL I take it my mechanic for a full pre-purchase inspection!!! Some shops charge $50-$75 to go over a used car with a fine-tooth comb and put it up on the rack to look for frame damage or any signs of prior damage!

Find a reputable mechanic in your area if you don’t already have one. Ask friends and neighbors who they take their cars to and if they would recommend them! Go online and search by the name of any Auto Repair Shop before you take the car to them. Websites like Kudzu, Google+, Yelp and even Facebook alllows you to rate local businesses. Or do what I do, pay $10/year for access to Angie’s List and find a mechanic with high ratings on there!

If they try to charge for the inspection, tell them that you were planning to use them for all future maintenance and repair work on the car if it checks out okay and you purchase it! Most will gladly forget about the inspection fee when you imply that future business is in jeopardy if they do charge for it!

I’m being very repetitive but for good reason- it’s as simple as this- under NO circumstances will you give a private individual or car dealership a single penny toward the car until you have BOTH auto history reports in your hands AND the mechanic’s notes (if he writes them down during the inspection) or at least his written confirmation that car is in good condition.

If you aren’t 100% clear on what the mechanic says or his overall opinion of the car, ASK HIM! Say something like- "If you were in my shoes, would you buy it for $5k or could make any suggestions for her? I have looked and looked for mine, but…

7

Quote:
The 2002-2005 Saturn L-Series is definitely and oddball and the majority of folks have never heard of them or couldn’t tell you anything about them. But a well-maintained, lower mileage model can be an exceptional used car value! They have names such as L200 and L300. They were Saturn’s attempt at a mid-size sedan, borrowed directly from one of GM’s European divisions but with Saturn’s dent-resistant polymer panels covering the exterior and making it resemble the smaller SL sedans. Saturn’s unique body panels have the paint color molded-in, so you will probably notice that any of tthese you find still look very good compared to other cars form the same years! I found a 2003 L200 for my niece’s first car and got it for $5900 almost two years ago with just 62k miles on it! She still loves it and it just turned 100k miles and going strong!
I second the recommendation-these cars are the same platform as the SAAB 9-5. They were never big sellers, but offer exceptional value for the money. The other good thing-they are (mostly) plastic body panels (except the rear quarter panels), and hence rustproof. You get a good deal because they were relatively unpopular.
I would have no hesitation about buying a well maintained one.

8

Cash.

9

Beelzebubba’s list is laughably awful and I hope you follow his recommendations as hilarity will be sure to ensue.

These have well know and massive transmission problems that were actual flaws in the transmission design and impossible to permanently fix.

As an example here’s truedelta on the 2002 and 2003 Taurus. Note how every almost every single entry indicates total transmission failure and replacement.

At this point a Taurus with a dead transmission basically sells for about the same as one that runs, because everyone knows that it will need a new one soon anyway. These cars were basically what convinced a generation of American car buyers to never buy a domestic car ever again.

But I agree, you should definitely buy one of these.

Here’s truedelta

The models equipped with the ZF-Batavia CVT all had massive transmission problems. Note how almost every entry for CVt equipped indicates total transmission failure. Ford eventually dicontinued the CVT, cancelled the contract with ZF and shut the entire plant down. The 6 speed auto was better but not great either. Another recommend from me.
The Taurus only really got good with the current generation, even the 2010-2011s had transmission teething problems stemming from the introduction of the new GM/Ford joint venture transmission they brought out that year.

Mechanically OK, massive problems with body and chassis rust due to poor factory paint finish. Could be all right if it’s got a recent timing belt and is from Arizona or Southern California.

Here’s an Edmunds on the rust issue.

The Accord is another car know for huge, well known transmission problems which were the subject of a class action.

http://www.hondaproblems.com/problems/transmission-failure.shtml

Note that the lawsuit settlement only covered the model years with the worst rate of failures. So while almost every single V6 Accord is guaranteed to have a catastrophic transmission failure, due to the higher horsepower and torque of the V6 engine, the rate is lower but still quite common for 4 cylinder models. See truedelta on the 2001 Accord.

So these are some pretty solid, knowledgable recommendations.

The problem with very early iterations of the 2.7l engine stemmed from an internal waterpump that was under-speced for the application, which would at higher mileage develop an internal leak and mix coolant into the engine oil, forming sludge. There was no “inherent design flaw”, and this part was replaced with a new, stronger part at some point that I forget exactly but definitely before 2005. This problem was somewhat made worse by the fact that the 2.7l engine drove the pump via the timing chain and thus the pump is rarely inspected. The earlier iterations of the 3.5l SOHC had the same problem, but because it was a timing belt design, the pump was replaced or at least inspected during the timing belt service, so failures are rare. Even the 2.7l rarely ever had any problems after around 2002, and the engine continued to be used for some years after that with no serious reliability issues. None the less it’s not a good engine, and the 3.5l is superior in every way so there’s really no reason to consider one.

Chrysler transmissions after around 2002 or so are also quite reliable. In the early 1990s Chrysler was first to the market with a 4 speed electronically controlled transaxle and had many teething problems with it, with a lot of problems caused by they themselves mistakenly putting the incorrect fluid spec in their service schedules. Another issue was that Chrysler ruled the minivan market at the time, and the fact that minivan owners are almost all insufferable morons with huge families who insist on either completely overloading the van and/or attempting to tow huge loads well beyond the (FWD) van’s modest capabilities, and otherwise using them like pickup trucks.
But yeah, leave these for those of us who know better and go buy a 2002-06 Ford Taurus.

10

Thanks for all the info, folks.
I’ve found a 2004 Saturn L series that is decent. Ugly, but low miles. I’ve also found a 2004 Saturn Vue, which I didn’t think I would like, but is a very good runner, 85K miles, and roomy. Yes, it feels clunky, but I used to drive a 2002 Explorer and that was clunky as a mofo. I looked at Nissans, I really like the Altimas - after the style change in, what, 2006? They retain their values well, which has priced me out.

I’m familiar with transmission problems - every Chevy I have had has required a new one. I’ve had three Oldsmobiles, all ran great until around 125K when they started nickel and diming me (the car I just donated was a 1993 Olds Cutlass, I’ve also had a 92 Cutlass and a 97 Cutlass).

Between this thread and Rack-a-Bones, I’m learning quite a bit. Thank you!

11

What I look for in a used car is minor body damage. It doesn’t matter to me and drives the price way down.

And I have had very good luck with the used cars I have purchased, having purchased only 3 cars in the last 25 years.

12

Did you already buy?

Whatever you buy, have a reputable mechanic do an inspection, including a compression test. It should cost around $100 and it’s cheap insurance.

Ideally, do this before you buy.

13

We’re going tomorrow afternoon - I have a list of cars to go try out. A few are at dealerships that have 30 day return guarantees, which is prompting me to go with something I can find with them. The friend mechanic said he is willing to inspect any car I buy - he’s just not available tomorrow. And yes, car really needs to be purchased tomorrow as I will be completely wheel-less come Saturday when the rental is due back and I really can’t afford to keep renting.

14

This approach only works on some types of vehicles and some types of motors.
In particular a large V8 with 100k miles is half way out the door, unless of course it’s a known reliable and strong model/engine.

Additionally, high mileage is more of a concern for components OTHER than the engine, such as suspension, brake assemblies, transmission, electrical and wiring etc.
A car that has done 100k ‘highway miles’ has seen it’s fair share of wear and tear.
A car that has done 50k ‘city miles’ with lots of stop and start has seen a lot of engine wear and tear because of the environment it was used in, however as a car overall it has less abuse.

Rebuilding a motor for a 50k car, makes much more sense than buying another 100k mile car that previously died out because the transmission, suspension and wiring fell apart.

15

The L-series isn’t a beauty queen, but that is one of the reasons they’re such a good deal. You get a lot of car for the money and at $5k, you can’t have it all! Substance definitely trumps style when you’re buying a used car on a tight budget! How many miles does it have and is it a 4 or 6cyl?

It’s funny, the 2000-2002 were pretty boring to look at, but they weren’t ugly. They just looked like larger versions of the smaller and far more popular S-series. They didn’t sell nearly as well as they expected, so they redesigned the exterior for 2003. They wanted to give it a distinctive and unique look and they succeeded, but distinctive and unique isn’t always a good thing. Sales only got worse and they dropped the model after 2005.

Look at this way, you’ll be looking at the inside of the car most of the time and it’s decent enough! That face will grow on you…

IMPORTANT- All L-series and 2002-2004 VUE models have a timing belt that MUST be changed every 100k miles. The 2.2L 4-cylinder, also used in both models, has a timing chain that doesn’t require changing. If you purchase either with the V6 and it has over 100k miles, you need to find out if it has been changed. If not, you need to do it immediately and it will cost at least $500, possibly more. Check with several mechanics. If you fail to replace it and it breaks, there’s a 95% chance that your engine will be destroyed!

2004 VUE- Saturn replaced the 182hp 3.0L V6 used in the 02-03 VUE with a 250hp 3.5L V6 that they purchased from Honda. Long story, but they wanted to improve performance and appeal to import buyers…so they worked out a deal to provide a diesel engine for Honda to use in some European Civics and Honda provided Saturn with the V6 for the 2004-2007 VUE.

The Honda V6 will fly like a bat out of Hell! :smiley: Honda also provided the 5-speed automatic transmission to go with the V6. For whatever reason, this transmission had not had any of the reliability issues that some Honda models have. One theory is that Honda knew what was causing the failures by the time they started building them for Saturn. To avoid the legal nightmare that would ensue if the transmissions started failing in the VUE, there are some ‘allleged’ insiders who claim the transmissions were at least partially hand-built to ensure quality and reliability!

I’m having flashbacks to my childhood! When I was born (1975) my mom had a '74 Cutlass Supreme, then a '77 Cutlass Supreme (it was the fancy Brougham model with the buttons sewn onto the velour seats and an 8-track player!). She drove the '77 for almost eight years, then she traded it in for (you’ll never guess) an '86 Cutlass!!! I’ll admit that the '86 was actually a very sharp looking car at the time. It was actually the “high-performance” (and I use that phrase loosely) 442 model in battleship gray with t-tops and raised white letter tires. But it was all show and no-go…flooring the accelerator made it sound awesome thanks to old school 4-barrel carbs, but the gas gauge went down quicker than the speedo meter went up if you did that. The 80s really sucked now that I think about it…

Anyway, she finally realized that there were vehicles made by companies other than Oldsmobile (and she divorced my dad and could buy whatever the hell she wanted)! In late 1994, she bought a '95 Jeep Grand Cherokee with part of her divorce settlement. She is still amazed that you aren’t required to buy the same model of car over and over…

If you had a clunky '02 Explorer, would I be correct in assuming you probably had a few dozen problems with it? The '02-'03 had a ton of reliability issues and Ford refused to issue recalls for most of them! I usually have bad luck (with cars and life in general) but I had a 2003 Explorer XLT 4WD and it was the most reliable vehicle I’ve ever owned! And all my cars before it were Hondas and Acuras, but that Ford was built like a tank! I sold it to my sister in 2008 and it just turned 200k miles and runs great!

Bad luck caught up with me and bashed me over the head though. I replaced the ‘03 Explorer with a 2007 Explorer Eddie Bauer 2WD and it was a freakin’ nightmare! I spent over $8k in repairs after the warranty expired. I used to pray for a tree to fall on it or someone to steal it or at least set fire to it…but instead I had to drive the damn thing until about four months ago!

I also have a 2006 Mazda3 because I needed at least one car that got over 14mpg! Last November, the Mazda dealer in my area sent out a letter advertising an Owner Loyalty rebate of $1000 and a no-haggle $8000 discount off the MSRP of any 2012 Mazda CX-9 (their 3-row SUV). I was able to get one with a sticker price of $39,185 for $29,207 (I had to haggle for more than $8k off, especially since it said ‘no-haggle’), so I got $978 off on top of the $8000 and $1000 owner loyalty.

But the moment that made me so happy that I had to fight back the tears was when they finally agreed to give me KBB Trade-In Value for the '07 Explorer and I watched them drive it away to the back lot! I’m not sure if they shipped it back to HELL or sent it to auction…but I knew I would never see it again!!! And I got $7500 out of it…but I would have taken $5k if they had spent a day or two trying to wear me down…that or I would have drove thru the showroom windows and totaled it for the insurance payout! :smiley:

16

The L-Series Saturn ended up being a no go. The dealer “forgot” to note it was a salvage title. They took it in on a trade, didn’t get all the paperwork, etc. I don’t have the time or the desire to want to clear it.

The same place with the Vue also has a 2006 Ford Focus, 82K miles, same price as the Vue. Personally, I think the Focus is somewhat ugly, but I know a bazillion people that have them and they say as long as you keep up on maintenance it is a great little car. Would that I have the money for a Fusion. Oh well.

Cross your fingers that in 12 hours I will have something!