I really am not getting what was so difficult or frustrating about this, once we got past the first week or two and the initial bug-fixes/functionality changes were hammered out.
As computer system changes go, this was EASY. It does the same things in mostly the same way, and there are really minor stylistic/functionality differences.
And almost every one of those changes is in the vein of moving to the standard iconography and user interface standards made popular in the years since vBulletin started. They ought to be familiar enough from using just about every other website and mobile app out there.
I’m not too familiar with the differences between Tapatalk and the new mobile app/mobile friendly site. I thought Tapatalk sucked horribly, so I didn’t use it, and don’t have a lot of opinion there. But on the regular website, it seems to be a better deal all around.
I think some of this attitude comes from what sort of fields you’re most comfortable with. I’ve been through endless frustration helping my in-laws do “simple” technology things like attaching files to emails. For whatever reason, it’s not simple to them. But they do lots of things that I find frustrating but they can do easily. My mother-in-law can sew just about anything without thinking about it. It’s simple to her but hard to me. Or what about working on cars or home repairs? For some people it’s trivial to change the oil while others can’t figure it out no mater what. Some people can put together Ikea furniture from just the pile of parts, while other people can’t figure it out no matter how long they look at the instructions. Computer user interfaces are similar in that some people find them trivial to work with while others will find it very frustrating.
All through the changeover my attitude has been BFD.
No, I don’t particularly like the look of our new home, but I can still see what people have to say, and add my own views, just like I could before. I’m no expert computer user but figuring out how to navigate the new layout took at least ten minutes off my life. BFD.
Sure, but none of those things are tough- I can work on cars, I can do home repairs, I can change my oil, I can assemble IKEA furniture, and I can even sew, after a fashion. Well enough that I’d be fine with some practice. I can’t say I’ve run into anything that I can’t do or figure out- I’m not good at everything, but that’s mostly just a matter of practice. And I’m pretty confident that I can figure just about anything out and learn it if I have to.
I actually started a thread wondering if it’s some kind of cognitive thing- maybe it’s learned helplessness, or some kind of lack of confidence, or age related decline?
I knew it was going to be an annoyance; I already knew how the old board worked and didn’t have to put much effort into posting there. A new board was going to require me to put some work into learning new procedures. And the end result would be using a board that was pretty much equivalent to the old board as far as procedures.
I feel software developers sometimes impose change just for the sake of having change. And that’s a mistake. As I said above, you’re forcing people to do extra work to end up with the same amount of results. It’s a dumb paradigm.
But in the case of this particular transition there was another factor which tipped the balance in favor of transition. The old board was falling apart and was beyond repair. That justified the effort of the transition.
So my advice to the OP is to ask if you have a good reason for initiating this software. If it’s just to change to new software, you probably don’t. Don’t assume people like having to learn new things, even if you do. For most people, having to learn something new is just work. And having to learn something new for no good reason is just needless work.
I’m serious- I’m amazed at the level of frustration and consternation caused by a software change on a message board.
I mean at the very worst, you’d just budget in some extra time to figure it out, knowing it would be different than what you were used to. But it sounds like people actually got MAD about it or really frustrated, which is entirely perplexing to me.
Are people so on rails with how they interact with the board that little changes are hard to deal with? Like moving a button or changing its size or color?
Maybe that’s where my understanding is failing me; my thought process would be “Oh… they changed the save button. Where is it now? Maybe it’s the one labeled “Submit”? I’ll try that. Nope, that isn’t it, let’s see what else there is to try.” And once I’d figured it out, I’d remember for next time.
Age-related decline will affect everyone, so it’s certainly a factor in some sense. But I think the difference with computer UIs is more about whether someone is more about deductive knowledge or encyclopedia knowledge. What I mean by that is like this:
Deductive knowledge: Understands basic concepts and can deduce how to do things. This person doesn’t know how to change the alternator in the car, but knows how to figure out how to change the alternator.
Encyclopedic knowledge: Has a lot of knowledge memorized and recalls the method to do things. Can only change an alternator if they have done it in the past or have instructions on how to do it.
I think deductive people have an easier time when the interface changes. They know how to figure out where the buttons are and how to do things. An encyclopedic person has the placement of the menus memorized and does things in more of fixed patterns. It took them a while to memorize that knowledge. When things move around, it is like starting over. It’s not like one way is better than the other. If you ask a deductive person where a menu option is, they might not remember but they can figure it out. But an encyclopedic person could give you the exact directions to it because that’s how they interact with the UI.
It’s also temperament. I get frustrated when I can’t figure out how to do something. I’m quite good at figuring out how to do new things, and have faith that I can do so eventually. But RIGHT NOW I WANT TO REPLY TO LEE, and I can’t. And that’s frustrating.
Perhaps it’s a character flaw, but it’s a common character flaw.
It’s the annoyance of somebody else making you do the work of learning something new for no reason.
Suppose every night, you take off your shoes as you get ready for bed. And every night, somebody took the shoelaces out of your shoes and left them lying next to your shoes. So every morning you would have to spend a couple of minutes relacing your shoes before you could wear them.
It’s not that you couldn’t do this. But you would be annoyed at having to do it.
I’m sorry you’re frustrated, and I certainly hope you don’t give up on the SDMB!
Perhaps I have too cavalier an attitude towards this sort of thing. If so, it’s probably because, as a tech support person, I face issues every day, so this was just another tech support issue to me.
Why yes, that is exactly why you, and probably the majority of the people who just can’t understand why the frustration, have a “cavalier” attitude. Because you are already tech people. There are a great many on this board. I’m not. I have other life skills. I can grow beans. I can turn a kid inside a goat so it can be born. I can lead a funeral service. I can sing an aria. I can darn socks. I can backpack into the wilderness. I can train a horse. I can herd sheep with a dog. I can write a novel. At least, I have done all these things and others which take training, skill, and talent, experience. BUT I DON’T DO TECHNOLOGY. I don’t like anything with a motor, much less with a fucking modem. Whatever the hell those are. Like millions of other people, I use computers every day without either liking or understanding them, because willy nilly that is how the world works, and there really is no choice about it any more.
I know this sounds bizarre and pathetic to most of you. But I HATE learning new technology. It’s not that I can’t. It’s that it is so unpleasant and the rewards are so minuscule and inherently irritating (hey, I can finally find my email again after they made me upgrade for $500!) that I try to avoid it as long as possible.
I don’t expect anyone to empathize though. I’m just complaining.
One thing to keep in mind is that no one has to post on this message board. It’s not like anyone is thinking “Oh, man, if I don’t learn this new Discourse software my boss is going to fire my ass and hire someone new who can learn it, and then my kids will go without food and we’ll all be homeless”. We come here to enjoy ourselves, not to “troubleshoot” a new software system.
Now, fortunately, this board means a lot to a lot of us, and the user base here is probably going to be willing to put up with more annoyances than many other “places” on the Internet. But it’s still something to keep in mind.
Cool. My problem is, you keep asking in ways that insinuate that anyone with trouble has some sort of problem. I mean, I’m sure you wouldn’t like it if I asked if you had cognitive decline because you don’t easily grasp something I find obvious.
My answer is the same answer I’ve always had. Some people have trouble with computers. It’s always been that way. Yes, younger generations who are exposed to computers earlier tend to do better. But even among them there are people who have trouble. All groups have people who just barely figure out how things work, and thus any change puts them back really far. They may be able to figure it all out eventually, but the time it takes may be longer than for you or I, and more full of frustration.
We can maybe discuss why some people are able to adapt and others aren’t, but the one thing I know it isn’t is that there is anything wrong with these people. Any more than there is something wrong with people who can’t do what I do and pick up any instrument where I know how to play all the notes and start playing by ear.
There’s a post that a kind poster (whose name I keep forgetting because I’m really bad with names) posted that was about all the differences we could expect when moving to Discourse. There were guides on the new way to do things, as well as instructions on new stuff we could do.
I think this is a good thing to do. Though, if you can control how similar the new forum is, I’d mostly keep as much the same as possible, and only add new things.
BTW, unfortunately, I actually could use that thread right now, but can’t find it. I went through all of ATMB (as well as Site Feedback, though I don’t think it was in that forum). I seem to remember that there’s a way to use a definitition-style link, where you click the link and you get a small popup explaining what the word means. And I haven’t yet found it when looking at more general Discourse guides, or Markdown guides.
It’s not essential to use it–I could just link a Wikipedia link or a dictionary link. But I thought it would be cool to use.
Ah yes, I know what you are talking about now (though I don’t remember the poster either).
I have mixed feelings about those kinds of threads. On the one hand, over-explaining tends to intimidate the kind of people that are intimidated by technology.
Here’s my philosophy on user guides. When someone joins my system, I want them to quickly learn the five basic things.
How to find the conversations you are interested in.
How to read them.
How to reply.
How to start your own conversation.
Search for stuff.
Everything else can wait.
I’ll have lots of documentation about the other stuff for the people that want to read it but the vast majority of people don’t want to read it and many would be intimidated by its very presence. Most shouldn’t need to read it because they have better things to do with their lives than learn how to use software.
Some people get frustrated by this because they want to know everything before they do anything. I make the links to the advanced documentation findable but not obvious.
One minor example, keyboard shortcuts are really powerful for the people that know how to use them and I appreciate the person that posted the Discourse shortcut tips. But for many, the very mention of keyboard shortcuts reminds them of when they were trying to learn DOS and that’s a very dark place for them.
Snide aside: DOS was perfectly fine. Why did they suddenly switch to Windows? Now I have to learn a new thing. Why are software developers always changing things?
FWIW My system has a built in glossary for all the medical terms. Whenever someone says something like “What is POEMS Syndrome?” someone one else will quickly sneak off and add POEMS to the glossary and then say “See the underlined word? Click that.” I’m surprised Discourse doesn’t have that. Or maybe it does?
It sounds like there IS a compelling reason to upgrade the software. But since the system isn’t yet choking on a regular basis, that reason won’t be obvious to users. Make sure you communicate it very clearly, and apologize for the inconvenience.