I’ve tried to stop engaging with babale, and this shows why. I don’t know what happened, but he’s become one of the most unpleasant posters on the board. There’s just no productive conversation with him.
No, those facts were presented during the previous election and either dismissed as fake news or not heard by people who only get their “news” from Fox, OANN, and people they follow on social media.
I’m going to actually support a bit of what you said. It’s not that we are universally backsliding in every area. There are still bits of progress here and there. But the problem is that it seems like in total we are backsliding more than progressing, due to efforts by right wing lawmakers and a gish gallop of executive orders, and backed up by a Supreme Court that doesn’t seem to give a shit about the law anymore.
(So I do acknowledge what you said about there being progress in some areas, but just pointing out that 2 steps forward don’t help the 20 steps back we’re taking.)
Looked in the mirror lately?
You are free to say whatever you like. But if you are going to say idiotic things and make ignorant claims about women’s rights and freedom, expect that others won’t really you seriously.
Is it true that there are more women in management type positions than in my youth? Yes. Is it true that men take women more seriously? Is it true that overall we are better off than we were? There are some really big losses to women in the last few years, and more in the offing. I’m not at all sure we are better off, and there’s no question that in very important ways we are are worse off. And there’s absolutely no question that the current administration is trying to shove us back into “our place” as creatures who exist to benefit men.
When I find myself (feeling the urge to) getting my reply out within nanoseconds of the post to which I’m replying – a post with which I feel strong disagreement – by trying to set my own personal best Typing Land Speed Record, I usually deduce that I need a break from the keyboard.
But that’s just me.
The way the anti-fascists win is emphatically not by spending our energies arguing with each other. We all agree that fascists must be stopped. Period. It doesn’t matter at all who thinks Trump is kicking puppies and who thinks he’s raping nuns. Every time one of us criticizes an ally, we’re misspending our ammunition. Anyone who actually cares about stopping fascism needs to focus their fire on the fascists.
I think many if not most Trump voters are okay with this kind of misogyny and patriarchal values as long as they get the other stuff they want (racism, xenophobia, anti-woke, angering liberals, etc).
This seems very very clear by how they vote.
It sounds as if you’re saying Democrats should never say anything like “they want women to be property” until they actually say that explicitly and openly work towards it.
By then it would be much too late. I think you’re acting like we’re much further from these terrible things than we actually are. All these bad things in recent history happened and generally surprised a lot of the people involved.
Is that what we ran on? I must have missed all the “trans genocide” commercial Kamala ran. Got some links?
Touching on this, I was trying to thread this needle in the “Hands off thread”. Specifically, I think there is a chance that there are people there who are otherwise Trump supporters who want ELON to keep their hands off their specific government entitlement issue. IE, people who have already, or are about to have their faces eaten, and have opened a chink in their armor. Because there is a noticeable number of “conservatives” that support Trump but think Elon is a loon.
I also stated I have zero hope that it does anything on the federal level, but again, I’m in a very red area of a light blue state, and I want to keep my local and state representatives mindful of my concerns to keep securing my vote.
As for Der_Trihs, they seem deeply unhappy, and there’s valid reasons for that. I don’t know the reasons they keep wanting to, IMHO overshare with the board though: most of us agree to some degree with the problems (this thread showing a lot of the range of “some degree”!), but their reactions are so extreme it almost reads like a cry for help. Rather than drinking, I think they need to unplug from the news and take a couple of weeks to find something that can give them some inner peace or the like, because it seems like the feedback loop is getting worse.
What happened is that I realized that illiberalism is incredibly dangerous, whether it is right winged or left winged in flavor. The Republican party has been taken over by illiberals, and if the same thing happens to the Democrats, it’s game fucking over for America, and possibly for Liberalism as a whole. And so I’ve stopped being tolerant of it. I don’t really care if it ruffles a few feathers.
I agree completely. That’s why I find it so frustrating that idiots keep repeating this “Republicans want to make women property” line. I have met, unfortunately, too many Trump voters. Literally none of them want to make women into property.
They have plenty of other views that are destructive, regressive, and harmful. But not one of them wants women to lose the right to vote. And quite a few of them are women.
Sorry, you can’t just declare that there’s no question and make it so. I do, in fact, question that.
I don’t question that they have a regressive, shitty, harmful view towards women; one that I disagree with. But there are lots of possible regressive, shitty, harmful views that I disagree with, and they are not all equal to each other, and it’s counterproductive to pretend that they are.
Are we shifting the goalpost from “women are property” to “misogyny and patriarchal values”? Or is the argument that “misogyny and patriarchal values” is equivalent to “wanting women to be property”?
In my experience, sexism is a scale, and the Trump supporters I know are further along that scale towards sexism than the Democrats I know. But neither Trump supporters nor Democrats are anywhere near the “women are property” end of the scale.
No, they don’t have to explicitly and openly work towards it; but there has to be at least some evidence that they actually support this thing.
Otherwise, it’s exactly like right wingers saying that gay marriage will lead to open acceptance of bestiality, or that any level of wealth redistribution is communism.
I guess you missed all of the Project 2025 ads?
That said, Kamala did a pretty good job of staying away from that sort of whackiness. But simply ignoring it is, clearly, not enough. It makes it far too easy for others to tar you with that brush. What Kamala needed was a strong, public repudiation of her party’s extremists - like Bill Clinton’s Sister Souljah moment.
Fuck, goddamn TRUMP did a better job of distancing himself from Project 2025 then Kamala did from her own side’s skeletons.
And yet, he seems to be applying it’s playbook pretty closely.
Pretty impressive! Why couldn’t Kamala publically distance herself from unpopular activist positions during the election and then implement policies that sometimes align with those positions anyways after getting elected?
If you want to know why, go look at the reaction to Gavin Newsom’s podcast. If Kamala dared to utter one syllable that wasn’t in lockstep with those activist positions, she’d be crucified by a vocal minority of her own base.
Of course she also can’t come out in support of those positions, because they’re wildly unpopular, even among the less vocal parts of her own base.
So she utters a few focus group tested phrases, and tells Waltz to stop calling Trump weird, and moves on with her campaign.
To those sensible posters who keep engaging Babale, please stop. There is absolutely nothing to be gained for anyone, anywhere, by giving them any attention. Or start a Babale pit thread (if there isn’t already one) and move this over there. Please. Mother of mercy, please.
I think this exists in spades. I’ll get some examples later.
Up yours too, fuckwad.
Because she’d lose. (Which of course happened anyway, as it was inevitable that year.)
She had two things going against her (among others of course, but I think these were the big ones).
-
There were people on the left who saw anything other than a total rejection of Israel as supporting the atrocities in Gaza, and yet if she took that stance she’d alienate many in the Jewish community, as well as those horrified by the Hamas atrocities. And she lost votes in some key areas from people supportive of the Palestinian people. There was no winning there. Trump had the advantage of just being able to say that Palestine is full of terrorists and all those icky brown people deserve to die, and his base loved it, all of them.
-
Inflation. The main reason she and most people on the entire planet seen as incumbents lost in 2024. It’s like the whole world went insane and decided to blame whoever their local leaders were as if they had anything to do with global inflation. This doomed her and unfortunately Trump was able to take advantage.
I mean, there wasn’t any way for her to win in 2024. The fact that it was even as close as it was is something I find remarkable, as much as the loss was lamentable.
Wait, are you admitting that Trump is, in fact, implementing Project 2025’s policies?
So, why was it bad to run ads talking about how fucked up and dangerous Project 2025 is?
I’m confused. You think Harris should have run ads specifically stating that she didn’t think Trump wanted to commit mass murder against trans people, and attacking people who were making that claim? Or, more generally, that she didn’t think Trump was going to implement Project 2025, and criticizing people who said that he was going to do so? How would that have helped her win?
The ones that line up with what he was planning to do anyways, sure. There are plenty of ideological similarities.
Is he taking it as prescriptive? I doubt it.
It isn’t, there were some great ads about it that focused on things like Trump wanting to demolish our institutions to gain control over government functions.
What I criticized was:
And if that’s what your ad was about, it’s stupid, whether it used Project 2025 quotes or not.
I mean, I could have told you that.
No.
No.
Those strawmen ideas that appear to have come from a particularly dim child would not have helped her win.