Now I’m even more baffled what you’re trying to say. Are you mixing him up with wolfpup?
That’s kinda questionable. Your initial post in the other thread was complaining about @wolfpup’s reporting a car facing his house with an occupant who “sat there for hours” with “no obvious reason […] to be there” and “looked ominously like someone was watching our house”.
There are few bright lines in this sort of situation: one person’s “simply parked” may be another person’s “ominously surveilling” or “feeling like being stalked”, and depending on the circumstances, either of them could turn out to be right. In this case, it was in-between: the mysterious parker was there to surveil the surroundings, but as a security guard supposedly watching a nearby construction area.
And you have been really aggressively contemptuous towards the posters who lean more suspicious in this situation. If you want to reassure people about the situations that are worrying them, maybe take a more reasonable tone rather than spitting enraged accusations of racism and/or cowardice at them?
Again, what counts as “0 reason” versus an “objective reason” is in fact pretty subjective. I personally have never called the cops on a street parker, and I agree that communities in general need to de-escalate the default cop involvement thing. But I wouldn’t try to persuade somebody of that by calling them “scared of shadows”, “racist”, “naive”, “pieces of shit”, etc.
Fair enough; the Pit is a safe space for asshole behavior, though it generally doesn’t go un-remarked upon.
You said I was white before I did, so that was an assumption. (Given that I live in Hawaii, it’s actually quite likely that I’m of Asian descent.) And you’ve tried really hard to tar my community with the broad brush of universal police brutality, despite that fact that I pointed out, and provided evidence for, the fact that I KNOW the police in my community.
Further, while I dislike beating a dead horse, you obviously haven’t taken this on board yet, so I’ll say it again: we have no indication that the individual in the car in @wolfpup 's anecdote was Black.
I AM contemptuous about people that have no additional facts than: a person is parked and sitting on my street. There is simply no way to view that in any kind of objective way as a threat. I am not sure where the idea came from that a criminal is likely to sit for hours, in the open, in front of his intended target, in an identifiable vehicle. If that person is “suspicious” based solely on those facts, that every single person is public is “suspicious”. Because there is simply no facts or evidence that one is more likely to commit a crime than the other.
I simply disagree. If you have nothing more than there “a person is sitting in a car and that makes me nervous”, and you are at least reasonably informed of the huge number of police - citizens interactions that have ended poorly, but still call the police, then I can’t be neutral in the description of that behavior.
Wouldn’t expect any less.
And IIRC, it was for multiple nights in a row.
I, personally, still wouldn’t have called the cops, because I actually share the opinion that you are probably harassing an innocent person at best, and at worse putting them in danger. I just objected to the idea that this was somehow inherently racist when race wasn’t a factor at all.
Unfounded claims of racism on the reporter aside, I do share the opinion that you should not involve the cops for that situation.
From your very first post in this topic:
oops! I should have said you assumed I’m “upper middle class.” Did I say that I am? Or did you just assume that?
Anyway, you did make assumptions that police brutality is a problem in my community, despite the fact you didn’t even know where I live.
Not all cops are bad, and not all police forces are bad, and sometimes cops are very helpful and save lives and even (very rarely) can deescalate dangerous situations.
But systemically, the United States has a major problem with police brutality, and as sad as it is, you should be very careful before you involve the police in what might otherwise be an unproblematic situation. Even if police are largely good in your experience in your area.
I live in an area that is pretty blue (greater Seattle area), and it’s not a place where you’d think you would have a big problem. And yet, it got bad enough that the federal government had to step in and monitor police activity in Seattle, and just recently (as of last year) ended the program.
I don’t see major problems in the town where I live (Auburn) and yet I do read stories about cops getting in trouble (both in and out of uniform). And that’s only the people who get caught, and disciplined, and don’t get it hushed up. So I can’t take it for granted that it’s going to be fine if I call them for what might or might not be a big issue requiring law enforcement.
This actually felt like a productive discussion.
Absolutely! And I don’t think anyone in this thread is defending “busybody” calls to the police.
While the possibility of inciting an incident, especially a racially-motivated one, of police brutality, is a fantastic reason NOT to call the police, even for those of us who don’t live in areas where that is a realistic concern (sorry, Martin, they exist), there are additional reasons not call the cops for any old thing. It might scare the bejesus out of an innocent person. It could be wasting the time of the police. If I tried hard enough, I’m sure I could think of more reasons not to do it.
That (and I think you, Atamasama, feel the same way - I’m not directly this paragraph at you personally) doesn’t excuse mouth-foaming rhetoric and unjustified assumptions, both of which serve only to drive people away, rather than convince them of the rightness of one’s position. If I didn’t already agree with mjmartin that police brutality, disproportionately (but not entirely) directed toward young men of color, is a HUGE problem, I’d be inclined to dismiss them as a tedious rage drone.
Oh I do, hence some of my vitriolic comments against unwarranted personal attacks based on nothing more than assumptions and prejudice.
If I am ever in a position that I am trying to convince the board of the rightness of my position, I will be sure to keep that in mind. If that had been my intended goal, I wouldn’t have been discussing it in the pit.
It’s working, it’s working!
Seriously, I’m choosing to believe everyone is sincere in their feelings, working with nuanced situations and communities, and hoping for the best while being aware of the worst.
Nice care with your language there! You didn’t come to the pit first, I’ll grant you that. But the discussion began in IMHO. Do any of the posts starting here seem at all familiar to you?
It’s okay, you can certainly say that it wasn’t your intent there, either. But let’s be clear about motivations, forums, posting style, and results.
ETA: I will interpret your silence on the issue of my economic status as acceding that you were indeed making assumptions about me. Fair enough?
I have no idea what your point is in the first two paragraphs. I stand by every single thing I wrote in IMHO, and broke no rules there. As I stated in that thread, his actions were dramatically different than I would chose, but that is, I would assume, the point of a forum called “in my humble opinion.”
Yes. I made the assumption that you’re an upper middle class person. Is there a point you’re trying to get at there? Is that in some way offensive to you?
Just this:
Ahh. Got it. I made an incorrect statement. I had indeed made an assumption that you are an upper middle class person. I stand corrected. Very well done. Do you prefer a gold star or a rainbow sticker?
I’d actually prefer for you to listen to other posters, but it’s not up to me.
Excellent. I will henceforth never refer to you as an “upper middle class person”. Very well done.
Its been fun.
I should hope so!