Yes that is the hardcore obvious final solution level of antisemitism.
This “reality testing” comment you make though reveals more about your limited understanding of all forms of bigotry. It can be in less clumsily obvious ways. Stuff like that OP are the tip of a very large iceberg and you seem to deny that the rest of iceberg exists … (iceberg Greenberg no difference … old punchline)
I do though get that when it comes to Jew hate you will dismiss the read that quite a few Jews have (not all of course) as being snowflakes or paranoid, blame it on political motivations that you disagree with or their misunderstanding, or otherwise blame them for what they hear and experience.
It is very possible, really not all that difficult, to be against unfettered support of Israel, against war crimes and terrorism, to call out current abuses by the Israeli state, to be for Palestinian autonomy, without doing and saying things that many of us experience as antisemitic more than political.
As a general principle - sometimes when someone tells you that they are experiencing bigotry against them and you don’t see it they are indeed “playing the race card” or its equivalent for the form of bigotry, or being paranoid - but sometimes they are a bit more experienced at recognizing it than you are, or your biases may be in play. When we hear those claims from any group it is generally a good idea to not knee jerk dismiss what we don’t personally see as so obviously there. Take a beat. Maybe they are seeing something real that you don’t. Telling them they are imagining it, or intentionally making it up, or hypersensitive … rarely an effective approach.
Someone doesn’t need to be wearing KKK robes to be racist and not all Jew haters are Nazi cosplayers.
I mean, that’s generally good advice for white people interacting with minorities, but I am a Jew! Most of the people I know IRL are Jews. We see and are concerned about the statistics showing a rise in antisemitic incidents, but it’s just not our lived experience that there is some huge rising tide of antisemitism and we all need to be living in fear.
Someone chided me in another thread for not being sensitive to the fact that “Jewish kids are scared”. My Jewish kid is not scared and neither are his Jewish friends. Well, he’s scared of MAGA neo-Nazis, but not of his Muslim friends. Since the war began, I know exactly one Jew who has personally received a death threat, and that was from a Zionist neighbor offended by her pro-peace lawn sign.
Much of the Jewish community has been told by its leaders for years that antizionism is antisemitism, and basically any criticism of Israel is antizionism. If you’ve been conditioned to see a “Free Palestine” sticker on someone’s water bottle as an anti-semitic microaggression, then sure, you’re going to feel constantly bombarded with microaggressions these days and live in a state of anxiety.
Just like if you see a Pride flag and think it means the person wearing it wants to “trans” your kids. No matter who you are these days, there’s a bunch of people trying to keep you in a state of anxiety that can only be temporarily relieved by writing checks to them.
I’ve literally never seen anyone say this. I’ve seen people who say that other people are calling any and all criticism of Israel antisemitic, but I’ve never seen anyone actually do it.
I have seen people conflate criticism of Israel with insistence that Israel should not exist. That, I see all the time. Person 1 says “Israel shouldn’t exist”, person 2 says “hey, that’s not OK to say” and person 3 says “what’s wrong with you?! Person 1 was just offering some mild criticism of Netanyahu!”.
The Jewish kids who are scared are not scared of Muslims either.
Antizionism is antisemitism, yes, that any criticism of Israel is antizionism? Not any Jewish community I have ever been part of.
Really that is bullshit claim used by those who work very hard to require someone of the left has to virtually say kike before they can be considered an antisemite.
To add - Trump got the ADL to completely lose their way mainly because the Left completely denies virtually all antisemitism on the Left. Gaslights those who see it clearly as if they are just crazy.
This is bullshit. I oppose the Zionism of Smotrich and Ben Gvir. They’d almost certainly call me antizionist (and antisemitic, probably). Even though I’m a Jew.
There are many types of Zionism, and thus many types of Antizionism. They’re not all antisemitic.
I’m going to politely ask @Thing.Fish that if he’s so certain that:
He spin it off to it’s own thread. I personally disagree intensely, but we’re way past discussing the poster in question’s POV and into a whole new discussion.
Note, no “moderating”, no mod-color, just asking politely because it doesn’t really fit the intent of the thread.
That we grew up understanding antizionism, and understand antizionism as, what it has meant since Israel was created as a Jewish state, a call from Jews to be expunged from the river to the sea, calls for the sea to be red with Jewish blood, a justification for terror against Jewish targets across the world?
No it is not bullshit that that is what we learned and what it historically has meant. YOU can say “but I mean it to mean THIS so YOU are crazy to hear that meaning!” It doesn’t fly.
You use that word with full understanding of what it means to many and full knowledge that your meaning is a pretty new one and still use it? Yeah then you are being … insensitive.
ETA request above noted and I will self discipline from here.
Reread my post. Yes it is. Criticizing Israel is not.
You and @iiandyiiii don’t speak for all Jews and neither do I. I do speak for myself as a center Left edging into Progressive Jew and for the many Jews I know who have been activists and leaders in Progressive groups over decades now feeling driven out, unwelcome, and much worse. It is a very sizable number of us.
