In another thread, I asked if people would ride with an unlicensed driver, and described having a close friend (my wife’s best friend) who drives w/o a license.
I was somewhat surprised at the number of responses that seemed to suggest it would be appropriate to “nag” the friend about this, or to inquire more into the specifics of the situation. That surprised me because I’m not sure I have a single non-relative with whom I have that sort of a relationship. With just about every friend - and most family members - there are lines that simply aren’t crossed. If one party exhibits behavior or expresses views that the other disagrees with/disapproves of, they aren’t really interested in an in depth discussion, or an expression of the other party’s disapproval.
I readily admit I am far from social adept, and I have very few close friends. But I wondered if other peoples’ experiences/practices are that different from mine.
In the other thread, I fully agree that I will not drive with this unlicensed driver, and have urged my wife not to. But the fact that she drives without a license, and whatever the specifics of the circumstances in which she lost her license are not going to define our relationship with her.
Friends often express political/religious views and make health care choices I disagree with, and on occasion describe things that don’t seem to make sense to me. But I don’t consider it my role to get to the bottom of it or to interrogate them in every instance. In large part, if something doesn’t directly effect me, I’m content to allow pretty significant topics to remain undeveloped.
I note that I am a judge by profession, and have often been told that what I consider polite social conversation comes across as interrogation, and that I give the impression that I am “judging” people. So perhaps I have reacted by intentionally NOT applying attributes of my work to my social interactions. I can tend to be pretty critical of most people - including myself. If I gave full voice to such thoughts, I doubt I would have the few friends I have.
What if they’re virulently racist? What if they abuse their spouse and/or their children? What if they’re a thief, or a sexual predator?
Those are all examples of things that wouldn’t directly affect me, but I couldn’t be friends with someone who did them, at least not without trying to intervene.
On the other hand, there are certainly things (e.g. at least some political or religious differences) that I would certainly take a live-and-let-live approach about.
I figure there has to be a line, but it may be a fuzzy one. I’m not sure exactly where I’d draw mine, but I do have one.
Yeah - I agree. I would not be a friend of someone who acted in those ways.
I’ve had some friends who - to put it bluntly - lie. It bothers me, but I simply avoid putting myself in situations where I have to depend on their honesty/reliability.
Re: politics/religion - I’m happy to be friends/friendly with people who express views I disfavor (tho I admit some views likely color my overall perception of the person.) But so long as they didn’t keep bringing their views up, I’d likely be happy to retain a friendship on everything else.
I couldn’t tolerate someone who was a racist, pedophile, or who committed domestic violence.
There are plenty of things I can look the other way over, though. A tattoo artist friend of mine will barter for tattoos. For example, when DVD players were a big thing, he did four hours of tattoo work in exchange for 5 DVD players, new in box.
Politics? If their views are different than mine I do not discuss politics. Religion? I am openly atheist and that may interfere with a friendship if the other person is devoutly theist.
I’d say that’s the definition of a close friend versus just a friend. For me to feel comfortable actually nagging someone about something I know they should be doing, they would have to be a close friend I had known well for years. To do that to someone I didn’t know well would seem completely inappropriate.
But yeah someone making bad decisions is not a deal breaker for a friendship, hell I’d have no friends if that was the case As a friend you point out “That is a fucking bad decision that will end badly” and leave it at that.
There is a line though, when bad decisions cross the line to addiction for example, there is a point where you have to cut people off for both you sake. You are being an enabler, and hanging out with addicts when they are under the influence is the fucking worst on so many levels.
EDIT: LOL significant typo, there is not a point where “you have to cut people”
Friends are weird creatures, in that you will sometimes tolerate things in them that you wouldn’t tolerate in others.
I try not to let politics determine my friendships, I live in a pretty red area, so even those who lean progressive are still pretty conservative. But, I don’t bring politics up in friendly relations, and so I don’t judge people by their politics, but by the politics they choose to share with me.
I’m not going to interrogate you on your position on SSM or trans rights in order to determine if we are going to be friends, but if you bring them up, I will judge you on them.
As I mentioned in the other thread, my brother chose to end our relationship because I wouldn’t ride with him with his lack of license or insurance.
I had another acquaintance that got into my car holding a beer, and that ended because I refused to drive with an open beer in my car. He got very offended about that. He had previously been offended that I refused to ride with him while he was drunk (and he was always drunk.)
Same here. I’m a libertarian-conservative, and have friends who are liberal.
I had to sever my relationship with two close friends, and for the same reason: both went full MAGA, and started to subscribe to every insane conspiracy theory spewed from Alex Jones’ mouth. I lost respect for them, and slowly distanced myself from them.
Yeah, I saw a guy I know walking toward town carrying some bags. I pulled over and asked if he wanted a ride. After he got in, he reached into a bag and opened a beer for himself. It was a 2 mile ride. I was uncomfortable, but I didn’t say anything. If I see him walking again, I won’t pull over.
I won’t tolerate racism. Ran into my best friend from high school about 10 years after we graduated. After a few minutes of talking, I could tell he had changed since school. He said all blacks should be sent back to Africa. My girlfriend at the time was mixed race with black and I let him know. All he could say was “oh”. I said I didn’t think we had anything else to talk about and walked away, haven’t seen him since. I have since become a close friend with his younger brother, we enjoy sharing a dram of good whiskey every now and then.
My brother and once my best friend abandoned my mother over a bullshit misunderstanding. She was trying to protect him from some crazy ass choices he was making. Moms will do that. Hurt his pride.
I tried to fix it for years. I told him that his treatment of our mother would also hurt our relationship. Well, it has ended it.
I got to listen to my elderly mother literally crying about this for years.
Now I am the sole caregiver for my 93 year old mother. I live 100 miles away. My brother lives 15 minutes away. Yeah, it pisses me off.
So, don’t abandon family for no reason other than your pride was hurt and you can’t admit your mistakes. I draw the line there.
I’ve had plenty of ‘possible’ friendships aborted due to some irreconcilable differences. Most recently a woman I struck up a conversation with at a new exercise class where we seemed to hit it off, and a couple of sessions later we went out for lunch afterwards. We found out we shared interest in a particular hobby and were happily swapping tips about favorite suppliers and such, when she mentioned how sorry she was to miss a particular con, but she and her husband had already planned to attend a Trump rally that same day… Yeah. I didn’t say anything to her, but I just happened to choose a different spot in the exercise class from then on, and just never was available for lunch.
‘Established’ friends get more, though not limitless, slack. Luckily I’ve never (knowingly) had a friend who was a child abuser or drug dealer or anything like that, but I do have a friend that I know (because he told me) is massively cheating on his income tax. We don’t discuss the subject but neither do I think I’ll ever drop a dime on him, but I continue to be friendly with him in the sense of shared meals and party invitations and such.
OTOH, two long term friendships I deliberately killed in rather passive ways. One was a woman who had ‘found god’ in a particular near-cultish church and would NOT stop trying to convert me, even after I told her several times how uncomfortable it made me.
The other was a friendship from way back in high school days. She was one of those people who cannot be on time, for anything. I hated being left hanging, once for nearly two hours!, for no good reason, just her getting distracted or ‘lost track of time’ but I really liked her so I put up with it. Though with occasional griping, which got me apologies but she kept doing it.
Until I couldn’t take it any longer. Then I decided I would no long make arrangements with her for anything that involved an actual starting time, like plays or movies or even restaurant reservations. Our friendship limped along for a while, until she finally noticed I was turning down a lot of suggested outings and confronted me about it. I admitted to what I was doing, and why , and she got highly offended and announced she would no longer deal with me. I was both sad and relieved.
We’re bending over backward to have a smooth relationship with a good friend who won’t vax. We won’t be inside with him but will serve a meal outside or go for a walk. It’s a lot of work. We had a family member who wouldn’t vax, which caused other medically fragile family members to cancel a family holiday gathering. These situaions sap energy and create tension but center around discrepant opinions of safety that directly impact the other parties, but which can be avoided without rancor.
I dropped a long-term friendship with a colleague who, while slightly drunk and a passenger while I was driving, smacked me in the head to make a conversational point. This wasn’t the result of a disagreement about a risk decision, like the anti-vax people whom I know, but was simply loosened inhibition and physical violence. She didn’t see a problem wirh her actions. Farewell!
Sadly, I cut loose my best friend of twenty-plus years because of her emotional problems and mental Illness. I still feel like shit about it. But I couldn’t spend the rest of my life sympathizing with her and talking her out of suicide. Especially since she was being manipulative with the suicide threats, using them to force me to listen to hours of complaints about her life.
The end came when I tried to offer some advice based on my own experiences with depression, and she snapped at me, “Oh shut up! Your problems aren’t anything like mine.”. Yeah, twenty-plus years of friendship killed by one angry remark. I was done.
People with victim mentalities are fatiguing to be around.
My cousin and I used to be close. And then all of our conversations revolved around how difficult her life was. Nothing was her fault. She blamed all her problems on other things and other people, e.g. her employer, her parents, welfare services, her landlord, her doctor, her medications. They were “all out to make her life miserable.” The truth is that her situation was mostly due to her laziness, and her inability to take responsibility for anything. I don’t have much to do with her nowadays.
Not a really close friend, but I distanced myself from a guy in our circle who cheated on his wife. I’d have no problem with him deciding he wanted a divorce, but - absent some pretty extreme factors - cheating on one’s spouse is pretty incredibly shitty IMO.
Somewhat similar, I broke off a friendship with my brother in law because he was cheating on my sister. Sucked, as I actually liked him quite a bit, he was part of my tabletop RPG group for several years, and we hung out sometimes. If he had been cheating on his wife, I wouldn’t have liked it, but I don’t know if I would have ended it with him over it. But, because it was my sister, I kinda had to.
I will go the extra mile to patch things up with a close relative, even if I was not the one at fault, in situations where I’d just accept that a friendship was over with a non relative.
I get there are extreme situations where you have to do that same with a close family member, but I am very grateful I have never had to go through that (or even come close to it). Regardless of the circumstances it is incredibly sad when that happens.
As a friend you point out “That is a fucking bad decision that will end badly” and leave it at that.