What Would It Take to Prove Love Is Worth The Trouble?

Great Debates
1

Forgive me if this topic has ever been posted before, but I am genuinely curious about the mindset of [everyone] on this issue.

What is the standard or measure you use to determine if [love for one’s fellow people is worthwhile]? And how has this standard failed to prove to you [love is worth bothering to do] thus far?

Just so no one accuses me of being stealthy in any way, I will tell you why I’m asking the question. Aside from sheer curiosity, as [someone who has decided against love] I would like to know what [motivates others to love or not to love their fellow man]. Obviously I am certain [love] exists, since I [have experienced it personally]. I would [prefer to live in a world where people had love for their fellow man], but obviously people who don’t believe [love] exists won’t even make an attempt at [loving their fellow man] since (in their minds) there’s no [point to doing so].

So how 'bout it? What would it take to prove love’s existence to you?

(plagiary? what are you talking about?)

2

What [the hell] are [you] talking [about]? What kind [of love]? And why [the hell] are [you] using all those [brackets]?

3

Wisdom from the Divine Ms. M:

Or perhaps a little Garth Brooks:

The Lord of the Dance is giving out free lessons, Joel. Don’t be shy. :slight_smile:

4

And, by the way, I got your point on plagiarism. My answer is valid whether you read the issue with bracketed text or where you got it from. :stuck_out_tongue:

5

Well, you know, people seem to think that everyone will know what they mean when they say “love”, but the fact of the matter is that everyone has their own preconceptions about what “love” is, and they just assume that everyone else has the same idea as them. Since the idea of love is largely indescribable anyway, the fact that “love” does not have a universal meaning often does not occur to people. So before we even start discussing whether love exists, we’re going to have to have some common ground on just what love is. And part of that is going to be determining just how life with love would be different from life without love. If you can make some very definite distinctions between the two, then we can look at whether the conditions which we expect to exist in the presence of love actually exist. If you are unable to come up with any definite differences between the two cases, then the whole matter of whether love exists doesn’t seem very important to me. After all, if life without love is the same as life with love, then why does it matter whether love exists?

6

A life without love would certainly convince me. But you won’t catch me volunteering for this one.

Tris

7

OK, The Ryan, perhaps I shouldn’t have been trying to be cute with the OP. Let’s try to delve into this anyway.

  1. Is there such a thing as love, and if so, is it a universal? In other words, every act can be said to either be one of love or not one of love or neither. Is there a universal truth as to what acts fall into which category?

  2. Given that, is there any point in generally always attempting to do the loving thing in regards to your fellow humans, or is it better, ultimately, to not bother?

So, as for a life with or without love being different, obviously one who has chosen not to love would be able to chose different actions and therefore life would obviously be different.

8

No offense, but The World According to Garth?

I think love gets better PR than any person or concept in human history.

9

jmullaney says:
“1) Is there such a thing as love, and if so, is it a universal? In other words, every act can be said to either be one of love or not one of love or neither. Is there a universal truth as to what acts fall into which category?”

I agree with The Ryan about establishing some common ground. Webster’s has several definitions of love, but I think the closest one that would apply here is “the benevolence and brotherhood(sic) that people should have for each other.”

I think then what would be a loving act would be one for the common good of people. Sometimes that means doing what is harmful to one or a few for the greater good of the majority (like the father who suffocated his son to stop his crying so that the group of people he was with would not be discovered by the Nazis). And probably not everyone would agree as to what constituted a loving act.

jmullaney goes on to say:
“2) Given that, is there any point in generally always attempting to do the loving thing in regards to your fellow humans, or is it better, ultimately, to not bother?”

There again, that would depend on the individual person, and that person’s pyschological make-up and history. I was raised by two people who, although atheists, believed in kindness to friends and strangers, and to animals and the environment, and I saw those people reaping benefits of laughter and companionship and loyalty. Someone who grew up in a different sort of environment might view love differently.

jmullaney again:
“So, as for a life with or without love being different, obviously one who has chosen not to love would be able to chose different actions and therefore life would obviously be different.”

I don’t know if one really can consciously choose NOT to love, although one CAN choose isolation and withdrawal to prevent that love from wounding her/him.

I think that certain kinds of love are essential for human survival. There is the oft quoted story of how babies in a French orphanage failed to thrive if they were not cuddled, and some of them actually died until some smart nurses figured that out.

There is also something called an attachment disorder that appears in children who have been abused and uprooted so often that they are unable to trust or love anyone. In severe cases, these children must be watched constantly so that they will not injure other neighborhood children or kill pets.

I don’t know if any of that information is helpful to you; sorry this got so long.

10

What I have right now with my soulmate convinces me it’s worth the trouble.

It also convinces me that it’s a rare and beautiful thing, and that I must cherish this love and never take it for granted.

Sorry if I am making anyone nauseous here…

Yer pal,
Satan

[sub]I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR:
Four months, 18 hours, 8 minutes and 57 seconds.
4910 cigarettes not smoked, saving $613.78.
Life saved: 2 weeks, 3 days, 1 hour, 10 minutes.[/sub]

"Satan is not an unattractive person."-Drain Bead
[sub]Thanks for the ringing endorsement, honey!*[/sub]

11

Hmmm. Maybe a different forum would have been better for this – I’m getting way more intelligent responses than I expected. But no matter.

You can chose not to do a loving act, though, can’t you? You have free will. I see a hitchhiker when I am driving. Do I pick him up? If no, then I have consciously chosen not to love. I put a gun to someone’s head. Do I pull the trigger? Yes, well, ok, obviously a conscious choice which would not be love. But if I am singular in the ability, let me know.

As far as the ends justifying the means, I generally believe they don’t.

And I’m not talking about the love for one or several individuals. I’m talking about love for mankind in general.

12

Yes, one can choose not to do a loving act, but I don’t believe that is an arbitrary choice. I think it has to do with the individual’s past history and what have been the results of previous loving acts by that person.

Although I have no defined belief in a diety, I believe that people start out “good” and that what happens to them after they are born determines whether or not they will do “good” things (there again, a person could argue about what constitutes good).

I believe that everyone always does the best they can with the resources (emotional, mental, physical, educational, financial, etc.) available to them, and if they could do better, they would. And perhaps some “random” act of kindness adds to some stranger’s store of resources, and prevents them from doing something bad, and maybe even causes them to pass on that loving act to someone else.

13

Oops.

14

“deity”

15

Diety: an extremely thin god or goddess

From some sarcastic collection of misspellings I ran into. :slight_smile:

Don’t sweat it; we all make typoes. Feel bad when you screw up a closing code in vBB and your whole post looks like an indented quote or is in BOLD ITALICS that make you look like you need a double-dose of Ritalin. :rolleyes: (It happens to me all the time.)

16

You know, proper supplication to your Board God or Goddess might get that cleared right up. An actual verifiable miracle! What more can you ask? :wink: You just need the proper mix of ritual and offerings.
(I always answer prayers for vBB coding fixes.

…but sometimes, the answer is “no”. :smiley: )

17

Hey, wait a minute. Aren’t you the same Gaudere who commented about how “Christian answers to prayer” are so often about little stuff like finding Aunt Tillie’s ring, getting a parking place close to the store, and all that sort of trivia? “Proper supplication to your board God or Goddess,” indeed!!!

–II David 3:27

18

Hey, if your God can get away with miracles like removing someone’s desire for a chocolate ice cream cone, I think I should be able to get away with vBB coding repairs. It’s a good thing the standards for miracles has been lowered since the old days when you needed to turn people into pillars of salt or create entire universes; it makes things much easier on us Gods. :wink: