What would Jews do/think if the Messiah criteria were fulfilled by different people?

[Slow_Moving_Vehicle]

@cmkeller

@thorny_locust

It’s been a problem word for at least most of my life. And I’m 73.

What can I say, I guess we travel in different circles. I suppose the word hasn’t circulated so much that it’s on the better known lists of those to be obviously avoided

Possibly because, like “Negress” or “bohunk”, it’s archaic. I first encountered the word in Ivanhoe, in reference to Rebecca of York. Nevertheless, I’ve always understood it to be derogatory and taboo, especially for non-Jews. To my more mature ears, it sounds infantilizing, like “stewardess” or “authoress”.

[DPRK]

I am not “arguing” anything. Merely citing that the principle

@Johnny_Bravo

If the mother is Jewish, the father is irrelevant. Jewish, not Jewish, Martian, whatever. The child is Jewish in that situation.

is not accepted by the Karaite community, who are Jews, therefore it is not a universal principle in Judaism.

Another instance of 2.5 Jews, 3.8 opinions.

[thorny_locust]

@Slow_Moving_Vehicle

Possibly because, like “Negress” or “bohunk”, it’s archaic. I first encountered the word in Ivanhoe, in reference to Rebecca of York. Nevertheless, I’ve always understood it to be derogatory and taboo, especially for non-Jews. To my more mature ears, it sounds infantilizing, like “stewardess” or “authoress”.

Yeah. It’s a problem for two reasons. One of them is that sticking “ess” or “ette” on the end of words if they’re applied to women is minimizing: it’s an infantilizing sort of diminutive, and as men get just the title (or whatever) it assumes that the male is normal, and the female needs to be specified as other than normal.

The other is specific to applying it to an ethnicity: nobody said Christianess or Episcopalianess or Englishess or Whiteess. They said “Negress” and “Jewess.” Used in that fashion it carries the double whammy of sexual and of racial/religious prejudice.

I don’t think Scott was intending to be derogatory (though I think I last read Ivanhoe well over 50 years ago, and don’t remember it). But I think any use within the last, say, hundred years is rare for good reason.

[hajario]

@DPRK

is not accepted by the Karaite community, who are Jews, therefore it is not a universal principle in Judaism.

It doesn’t matter. I was asked specifically about a Jewish mother and an unknown parent. If I was asked about a Jewish father and an unknown parent, I would have answered differently.

[puzzlegal]

@DPRK

@Johnny_Bravo

If the mother is Jewish, the father is irrelevant. Jewish, not Jewish, Martian, whatever. The child is Jewish in that situation.

is not accepted by the Karaite community, who are Jews, therefore it is not a universal principle in Judaism.

There are always fringe situations. But Karaites have been distinct from rabbinic Judaism for so long that there are few connections between the two groups. (You might argue that Orthodox and Reform Judaism are very different, but most Reform Jews have friends and/or family who are Orthodox, and vice versa, the communities are still very closely linked.)

Every branch of rabbinic Judaism would accept the child of a Jewish woman, who was raised as a Jew and identified as a Jew, to be a Jew, and a member of the Jewish community. The absent father doesn’t matter.

[Love_Rhombus]

Question removed, as it felt too flippant and semi-offensive. If anyone’s curious I can PM it and you decide.