A mob of twenty or fifty people comes up to you and says “toss my salad” are you going to argue that it was only inferred that you have a choice? Or that he chose to assume an implied command and obliged.
Doubt what you’d like, that sort of “I bet in bizarro world where things aren’t what they really are you’d behave in this way I imagine, so ha ha you’re a hypocrite!” argument is weaksauce par excellence.
By all means tell us what you’d do. I won’t gainsay you on that. But when you say things that are objectively wrong, your angry imagination about what might have happened instead isn’t persuasive.
Lol,in bizarro world you would agree with me, since this entire thread is based on what would you do, there is no winner! asked answered and done with you.
thread
wait my pronouns are weird??!!
I have to pick my battles. There is so much going on in the world that demands my outrage and my supply is easily exhausted.
At the end of the day, these are actions committed by a handful of random citizens with very little connection to me or the Democratic establishment. I don’t feel any obligation to waste my limited outrage supply on holding private citizens accountable. I save my outrage for holding my elected representatives accountable and I always remember that leadership needs to come from the top.
The audio for the video is not totally clear. You dont know what exactly was being said. I think you as a supporter of personal freedoms should support the diner more and be against such crazy mob behavior.
I suppose most protests are peaceful but those tend to be organized and they have people at the beginning who spell out the rules and they have their own “police” who stop protesters who get out of line.
This action was planned. Yes. They planned on going and demanding white people raise their fists and screaming at them if they dont. Why? I dont know. No justice, no peace I suppose.
Again, the op asked a question about something. It was answered and it does not matter what happened at minute 1, 3 or 5 in this situation. As far as this was not a mob threatening anyone, ok lets have the same scenario but its a bunch of white guys wearing MAGA hats and shirts. I think a lot of people on here would say it is threatening.
Apparently.
All this disagreement over what is a threat and what isn’t just supports the conclusion that firearms should not be widely owned and carried.
The more people get the idea that the people around them might be armed, the faster they will be to start shooting. It’s already a catastrophe. It will only get worse.
And it will only increase needless police shootings as they can argue that absolutely anyone might be armed.
Carrying, whether concealed or open, whether by ordinary people or off-duty police, needs to stop.
And cops should be required to do their ordinary patrols unarmed.
I have called them assholes many times, I have described them as aggressive, I’ve said that a charge of disrupting the peace might well stick, but you don’t think I’m against their behavior?
This is ridiculous. What I’m against is mischaracterizing their bad behavior. The mischaracterization by Fox and other outlets is a deliberate distortion designed to fool people into a “both sides” approach, keeping you thinking that, okay, on the one hand, cops are killing civilians and seventeen-year-old Blue Lives terrorists are straight up murdering protestors; but on the other hand, protestors are threatening mob violence against innocent diners, so it’s a both-sides problem.
To the extent that they’ve fooled you into this false equivalence, they’re endangering and undermining our civil society.
It is possible to recognize simultaneously that these fools are being fools, AND that they aren’t threatening anyone. And it’s possible to recognize that this is a really important distinction, because it helps you redirect your anger toward the real people threatening civilians.
It’s very similar to how you never start threads about the very serious threats to higher education posed by conservatives who (for example) try to get leftist professors fired or successfully defund campus centers who research poverty; but you’re always thrilled to start a thread about some teenaged idiot acting like an idiot when they’re doing so in the context of leftist politics.
Your bothsiderism and implicit ignoring of the real threat we’re facing today is far greater a threat to me and mine than any group of assholes who might yell at me to raise my fist.
I mean, yes. If you accuse me of hitting you, and I don’t touch you, that’s a pretty fucking solid defense.
So, it doesn’t matter what actually happened, all that matters is what you imagine could have happened?
That’s just a bizarre way of dealing with reality. In fact, it is how you deal with delusion.
Anyway, to your bothsidesism question, as I have previously and repeatedly said, if a bunch of MAGA hatters came up and demanded that I pay lip service to them, my reaction would be exactly the same.
Well, other than that the situation probably wouldn’t be the same, int hat I would probably have been showing solidarity with the BLM people before they asked, but still.
Bunch of MAGAs come up, tell me to salute the flag or pledge allegiance or something. I’d ignore them. If they didn’t let me ignore them, then I’d tell them to fuck off. If they kept up the harassment, then I’d keep telling them to fuck off until they either got bored and left, or until people with more appropriate authority to invoke violence came along asked them to move along.
At no time would I choose to get violent with them.
See, I have been in these sorts of situations before, and I think that a lot of the people that think that they would be threatened are people that haven’t.
I find most of the reactions here to be quite odd. If I was in a situation where I did not want to raise my fist but was genuinely worried that people were going to attack me if I didn’t? I’d raise my fist.
It would be the least consequential thing I could do to avoid the violence. It would only mean what I want it to mean.
Is it wrong for them to force me? Sure. But that isn’t the right time to deal with that. I have an obligation to retreat when I am in fear of physical harm, and this would be the easiest way to do so.
The last thing I want is to have to defend myself physically. Even if I win, I have to face consequences. Better to just pump a fist and then leave at the next available opportunity.
Is saying the obvious some sort of gotcha, to try and argue most people raising their fist with solidarity with BLM are only doing so out of fear? Perhaps, but that clearly isn’t the case, so I feel no obligation not to admit what I’d do.
Not that I would oppose BLM. Why would I support cops conscious and unconscious racism toward people of color? Why would I want unnecessary violence from cops?
I find it odd that the same people who say to go along with cop orders and protest them after the fact also choose to get into a physical altercation with non-cops. Especially when they tend to also support the Second Amendment, and thus know those people may be armed.
But even many of you who don’t believe that stuff seem to be ignoring the obvious choice.
Because what would you do differently in this exact scenario wasn’t the question that was asked.
That’s exactly what they want. They’re trying to set up a pretense, establish a “reasonable” fear of deadly violence. What they want is an excuse to murder fellow humans, countrypersons, and citizens without fear of consequences. That’s really what the whole Second Amendment thing is about. They are hungry for the blood of their fellow Americans.
If I was a diner and got approached by a group of people demanding I raise my fist or repeat some slogan, I guess I’d do it.
I’d say no at first or ask them to just leave me alone, and if things got heated or something, I’d go ahead and do what they wanted and then say something like, “There. Are you happy now?”
I really don’t want to take a chance of it turning violent and getting the shit kicked out of me, or worse, if I tell them to go screw themselves or dare them. I mean, why take that chance? I’m 58 years old and have to use a cane. My fighting days are behind me. And even back then, I wouldn’t be able to take on a crowd. Chuck Norris I was not.
Now, I admit I would not be happy with myself for backing down, but I guess that old saying comes to mind: something about walking away and fighting another day.
If folks who witness it think of less of me for giving in to the crowd, oh well.
I’m thinking you need to reread the OP.
It specifically asked what I would do in this scenario.
Anyway, this is distracting me from discussing the fun of driving a stick shift, having some nostalgia for books read and yearning for books unwritten, and learning about airplane design and balancing, so unless you actually have some sort of relevant and productive input, I’m thinking I’m done responding to you in this thread.
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[quote=“urbanredneck2, post:1, topic:919071”]
So what would YOU do if you were out eating, peacefully minding your own business, and some protesters came up and demanded you give a salute?
[/quote] That was the question answered, I don’t care how you want to twist it or read it. I will meet force with force and yes an angry “mob” is a threat of force.
Whatever helps you stay up all night jumping at shadows.
Okay, so you’re super tough. Why not meet them with your own threat of force? Be like, “HEY, ASSHOLES, SING ‘WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS WITH ME!’ DO IT! DOOOO IIIIIIIIIIIT!”
That’d be proportionate force. And given how tough you are, I trust you could do it.