It seems to be frowned upon, even by parents who frequently swear themselves. I swear frequently myself, except in professional circumstances, but thank God I don’t have any fucking kids.
Anyhow, my question is simple. So what if all our kids run around swearing? Why do we bother keeping it out of their movies, and out of their music, and out of their vocabulary? “Earmuffs,” and all that? What’s the point?
It requires an amount of linguistic competency greater than that which most little kids have to know when swearing is appropriate and when it isn’t. The kids are going to learn the words, so you might as well keep them from using it until they’re smart enough to know not to say them around Mom and Dad – with any luck, that’ll be around the time they know not to say them around the principal and the archbishop, either.
As you mention in the OP, you don’t swear in certain circumstances (professional). As matt says, children lack the internal editor to know when it is inappropriate to curse.
Childhood is also a time when certain behaviors can also become deeply ingrained, a child who curses freely is likely to become an adult who REALLY curses frequently. Such poor socialization as the inappropriate use of language can have a negative social impact on the individual both socially and economically.
To some extent, I agree with the adage that use of profanity is often a sign of a limited vocabulary, or at least a limited ability to use one’s vocabulary creatively. It will always be easy for kids to pick up swearing and other “short-cuts.” So I tended to try to discourage them early, figuring they’d be plenty able to pick them up later.
While folks differ in terms of their opinion of profanity, I think there are relatively few who consider the excessive use of profanity to be “a good thing.” So I have no problems lumping it with the many less desireable practices and habits I try to dissuade in my kids. At best, I try to teach them to swear when it is appropriate, and to be aware of not doing it around people who may take offense (grandparents, teachers, etc.). Just part and parcel of the type of “time, place, and manner” guidelines good parents try to instill in their offspring.
Not cursing is a sign of proper socialization. We have lots of them, each more arbitrary than the next, and none of them really cause harm to anyone - wearing shoes when in public and not at a beach, girls out of diapers wearing shirts, people in general wearing clothes, waiting in line (or not, depending on your culture), not answering your cell phone in the movie theater, standing on the right, walking on the left (or vice-versa), busing your own table when you’re an a casual restaurant, etc.
None of these is required for human functioning, but they make other people feel better and act as the social lubrication that keeps the naked ape from killing one another in frustration. If they are lacking, it’s a warning sign that some of the more important rules of socialization - not killing people, not stealing, not raping - might be lacking too. I’m not saying people literally fear a foul-mouthed tot will kill them, but I do think it’s an unconscious ill-ease stemming from pretty base animal fears around socialization.
Moved from General Questions to In My Humble Opinion. Who gives a goat f#!*, right?
Gfactor
General Questions Moderator
So long as we allow words to have power over us, cursing by small children will continue to be unacceptable. The more PC society becomes the worse the idea of small children cursing will be. We don’t want our kids to curse because we don’t want elitists to call them “unsocialised.”
For me, although I curse like a drunken sailor (in private, never in a professional setting), I have explained to my kids that I don’t want them doing it for this very reason – other people judge them for it.
FTR, however, I have taught my 7 year old son (and had taught my daughter when she was younger and it would make a difference) that if someone ever grabs him and tries to kidnap/assault or otherwise harm him when he is in public (think kidnapper/molestor) to start screaming out the worst obscenities he can come up with, being especially liberal with the word “fuck” because what is going to turn heads and get other people’s attention faster than a little kid screaming “hey, you goddamned motherfucking cocksucking son of a bitch get your motherfucking hands off me, you’re not my goddamned parent!”?
Excuse me, but where in the world did this come from? The idea of small children with anything resembling an education cursing was absolutely unthinkable a hundred and fifty years ago, and that’s hardly a period we would have called “PC.” Cursing has been getting more socially acceptable, not less.
Yeah, that’s just what I was about to say. People don’t approve of a kid saying Mf, but they don’t do anything about except maybe a disapproving look and possibly a mental note not to let that kid come over to play. Even 30 years ago it would have resulted in huge trouble.
I know that some people think swearing in toddlers is cute, but I don’t. I don’t find swearing attractive in most people, actually. I don’t want my kids to curse because it’s not how I want them to behave. Yes, they will hear the words; that doesn’t mean that we all have to use them.
I disagree that by being offended by swearing we “allow words to have power over us.” Let’s face it, words are powerful and that’s a good thing. Pen mightier than the sword and all that, right? Swear words are generally supposed to be offensive and that’s why they exist; they’re supposed to express extreme frustration or digust. Nowadays, we seem to have denied words’ potency and decided that cursing is fine in most settings, which sort of makes me wonder what people will say when they’re really mad if they’re in the habit of saying the worst words in every sentence. I sort think we’re going to have to come up with some new words one of these days…
But as Eric Cartman said, “What’s the big fucking deal, bitch?”
To me, the idea of any words being “unacceptable” is ludicrous. I agree with Litoris about not allowing words to have power over us.
Conversely, “sticks and stones can break my bones, but words will never harm me.”
The question is, are the words offensive? Or is it the concept they convey that people have a problem with?
Fuck
The act of sexual congress.
Well, without fucking, we wouldn’t be here. Throughout history, fucking has been done by almost everyone. At least, all of our ancestors. It’s a social, emotional and biological bond between people.
Shit
Feces; to defecate.
Again, everyone does it, and without it, we wouldn’t be here. We’d asplode.
Most other curse words are variations on those two.
Motherfucker
Come on. Nobody uses it to mean “you have sex with your female parent.” Most people I know use it without thinking that it has a specific meaning. So…does it have a specific meaning? Really? Or is it just an insult?
If it’s just an insult, what makes it worse than the word “Idiot?”
The word “fuck,” that’s what.
I can only conclude that, since the concepts aren’t offensive (in fact, they’re universal–shit and fuck are two of the only things that almost everyone does), then it’s the words themselves that offend people.
But they’re just words. Sounds.
Sure, we (adults and children alike) can use other words to express frustration, anger, disgust, sadness, lust, surprise, admiration, lust*…whatever. But why should we be obligated to, when “curse” words are effective as well? What makes one word, especially an interjection preferable to any other?
Although I’ll admit to being reluctant to use the “c-word.” I don’t know why.
Check out some of the more florid phrases in the Pit. Dopers are the most creative wordsmiths around, especially when coming up with new and creative ways to insult other or express themselves.
Words are the most powerful thing we have…they are what differentiates us as a species and allows us to be so successful. The power of words is not just in their strict meaning, but also their connotation…
…which is why I have always thought this was a stupid phrase, and is usually said defensively when someone has been called a name that is very hurtful. If you believe that, say, “nigger” has no meaning and doesn’t have the power to hurt, would you still recommend that a white person go into a black neighorhood and refer to the inhabitants that way? Do you think it would be a good defense to say, “but it doesn’t mean anything…words shouldn’t have power over us!” Of course, words do have power, because of the meaning they have been given by others who use them. Individuals don’t have the power to change the established connotations of words.
Well, of course it’s the concept, but you can’t have one without the other. Otherwise, you could just make up nonsense words to use for “swear” words, but no one ever does that…they use words that society regards as offensive for one reason or another.
Yes, and there are all kinds of ways to refer to that act, all of which have different connotations. A biologist, for example, would not be taken seriously if he referred to sexual intercourse as “fucking,” would he? Why do you think that is?
See point above.
Yes, it’s a huge insult, and it’s meant to be one…that’s the point.
History.
I guess you are allowing that word to have power over you. I’ll also bet that there is someone, somewhere, you would be reluctant to use a lot of words in front of.
And everyone knows when the intent is to insult someone, don’t they?
And what about the “n-word”?
I agree with dangermom: it’s a good thing for words to be powerful. And I think it’s useful to have some words that are off-limits in “polite society,” or that have shock value in certain contexts.
Kids will have plenty of time pick up curse-words later when they can understand what they mean and when it may be appropriate to use them. I agree that excessive swearing is generally a sign of a limited vocabulary. I couldn’t put it better than the brass plaque my friend’s father had on the wall in his study:
Profanity is the linguistic crutch of the inarticulate motherfucker!
As I’m reading this thread, I’m reminded of a funny t-shirt (NSFW).
I’m trying not to swear in front of my toddler, since she’s picking up on things very quickly these days. I’ve been swearing since I was 8, so it’s ingrained in me and I’d rather not have my daughter develop potty-mouth like I did.
This is silliness. You yourself admit that there are settings in which cursing is unacceptable. *Of course * your kids are going to be judged on what they say. Who isn’t?
And for the record, if some kid started shouting like that in my vicinity, I’d assume that the little turd was probably being quite correctly disciplined.
Yes, and we all know that that one is a lie. It’s what we tell kids to say to a) cover up their hurt in front of others, and b) so we adults don’t have to admit that they’re truly in pain. Which is the more painful childhood memory, the fights you got into or the mean things others said?
As for particular swear words, I think they tend to show something about what a society is a little nervous about. But different words for the same thing have different connotations; that’s one of the wonderful things about language. Words for sex can also carry meanings of love, respect, clinical disinterest, fear, silliness, violence, contempt, and so on. What words you use can show something about the attitude you have towards the thing itself.
I think its good for words to be powerful - but I think we need to be cautious about words having power OVER US. I don’t want my daughter to repeat my first “have someone unleash a holy fury of swear words at you in a business meeting and run out crying” experience. I want her to - eventually - be able to respond with “gee, I hope you don’t talk to your mother like that - now can you leave the seventh grade potty mouth out of the workplace and tell me what I need to know.” It is NOT a good idea to go into the wrong neighborhood and use the word nigger inappropriately - but I don’t want my Asian son crippled if someone calls him chink. That doesn’t mean you teach your kids to swear, but you do teach them - however NOT before they can learn it - preschoolers cannot learn this and apply it - that FUCK is “just a word.” That way, people who use language to bully are emasculated.
My child has ALWAYS been able to grasp the concept of “home words”. I have this thing about the demonizing of some words being really a stupid concept, so my child can say most of the bad words around me (not cunt, not n***er). He’s never slipped up, even when he was a wee tike in Baptist daycare. I love talking with him about the various times we almost shit our pants.
And, moreover, what else should they be judged on? The color of their skin? The content of their character is revealed by their word choices and impulse control.
Don’t get me wrong, motherfuckers. I love a well turned asshat, and I don’t ask any dipshit to fucking censor themselves around my crotch-spawn. But I do tell my kids that they are “grown-up words” and not to be used by my children until they’re old enough to handle them wisely - just like alcohol and voting.
South Parks’ “Fake Tourettes” show this week had me rolling on the floor. Especially when he Tourette’d his written words! Cartman’s *Golden Ticket * cracked me up.