What's so horribly evil about "spam" email?

Since I’m Communications Manager with my company, all the press releases go out under my email address. Therefore my work account picks up about 80% spam. That’s around 100 unsolicited mails a day. I was just on a 2-week holiday, so do the math: I had to delete around 1,400 mails when I returned. I couldn’t bulk-delete, in case I missed a vital business communication. It took me about 3 hours.

Yeah we should have a spam filter, but we’re a small company and we can’t afford one. So in addition to the inconvenience and wasted time, we also have an outlay that we can’t afford to prevent the shit.

On a personal level, I had to shut down my private Yahoo email account recently because it was getting hit about 300 times a day with spam. It’s fine to use the spam filter, but occasionally that grabs an important mail and deletes it. Furthermore, it doesn’t work with a POP client, so if I want to download the mail to my hard drive, I have to download the spam too.

I don’t know what world you live in, Rex, but I think these things are a bit of a problem.

Two thins:

  1. Since the snail mail junk mail I get is free, I’m not worried about it. Also, it doesn’t hit my PO Box because when I did have one, I opted for the “no bulk mail to be delivered.” That was many many years ago. My snail mail junk mail today comes to my absolutely no charge to me whatsoever mailbox. So, what I do with the stuff is shred it and use it for packing material–yet another saving!

  2. RexDart: Do you really believe what you’re posting here? I’m really looking for logic in your argument and finding none whatsoever. Everything you’ve posted to support the idea of spamming email accounts has been shot down–and very well–by every other poster in the thread. Yet you continue.

I’m starting to think we’ve been whooooooooooooooooshed.

Rex played his part admirably.

Actually, that is what I meant (as opposed to a user of those services). I just may not have stated it as clearly as possible. I thought I cleared it up, but that may have been the post that IE ate and never made it.

Hmmm, I get the impression RexDart’s not only playing Devil’s Advocate, but Devil’s Massage Therapist, Holistic Consultant and Cabana Boy.

But if not, I daresay this is by far the most deserved dogpile I’ve ever seen on this board.

But wouldn’t something like that be called trolling? I mean, posting something just so you can get a big reaction?

I think Rex is just ignorant of the situation and refuses to listen to any facts or figures to disprove his assertion that spam is just a nuisance that doesn’t cost anyone anything.

I haven’t read every post in this thread, so this may have already been covered.

Rex, some of the spammers are called criminals because they are, in fact, criminals. I don’t just mean the ones using spam to try and commit fraud (e.g. the “Nigerian relative” variation on the old “Spanish Prisoner” scam). I mean the spams that arrive with a deceptive subject line (e.g. “Haven’t heard from you in a while!”) and/or a forged header which makes it impossible to find out where the spam originated. These kinds of emails are already illegal.

This stuff would all go away if it weren’t for a tiny percentage of the Internet-using population that actually respond and buy stuff from these people. If the spammers didn’t get enough return to justify the small expense of spamming, they wouldn’t do it.

Enough of this arguing; let’s talk about something everybody likes. Like pop-up ads!

:smack: I had read it as “unless you are using Hotmail, etc.” Obviously the word “using” wasn’t there. My mistake.

Please don’t confuse me with RexDart

Spam is evil, all you have to do is see the kind of countermeasures (some totally illegal) that spammers do to compromise filters and other anti-spam measures.

DNFTT

No autopsy, no foul. :cool:

I’ll answer this for you quick, before going on to discuss the on-topic stuff posted since last night.

It would cost me another :tenbux: to discuss the non-public SA forums anywhere outside SA, so I will not do so. But I certainly consider it worth the money.

The obscure ban clauses are pretty easy to catch up on, because they have a partial list at stateog, and you can lurk a couple weeks and read what people get banned for to see the rest. Everything else is in their forum rules. If you ever decide to join, drop me an email and I’ll give you an exhaustive list.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program…

I want to clear up exactly what my opinions are, because everyone here seems so sure I must be “trolling”.

Having recently encountered some system admins on the net that held what I thought to be an overzealous and exaggerated view of the alleged “evils” of spam, I decided to post here my own opinion and see whether others agreed with me and found it a minor annoyance, or whether they found it to be more than that, and why. That’s no more trolling than posting an IMHO thread is trolling, and since it represented my actual sentiments and opinion towards spam, and I wanted a debate with the availability of naughty words, to the Pit I went. But if you perhaps think I should rather have posted to IMHO, maybe that would have been a more prudent course of action.

You’ll note that in my OP I never said anything to the effect of “w00t! sp4m rulezzz!” I merely proposed that perhaps it wasn’t “so bad” as many people thought. The cites provided in this thread have demonstrated that it does indeed have a cost associated with it. That cost is apparently very minor in comparison to the total economy or to the total expenditures of any single company. It was pointed out that even minor expenditures are important to eliminate when they produce nothing in return, and I agree on that point but note that while the net total of all those minor expenses is noticeable and one may therefore reasonably adopt a policy of opposing each and every one of them, no single one of them makes or breaks a company. In other words, $2700/yr isn’t going to make or break a company, but in conjunction with other unnecessary expenses, it get’s to be a real hassle, right?

Now, if it is your department facing one of these unnecessary costs, you would very much wish to see it go away, and would attach an extra importance to it. In another department, you might be infuriated by some unnecessary government red tape or permit applications you had to hire legal work for that ended up costing you as much as the IT guys had to spend fighting spam, and you’d be highly concerned with that. It would be quite important to you, and in the aggregate along with all the other departments’ unneeded expenses it would be important to the company as a whole. But if you went around trumpeting that particular bit of red tape as a national plague, people would be understandably underwhelmed.

If what you all want to say is that spam costs businesses money, then I’d be forced to agree from the cites and anecdotes provided. But in the grand scheme of things, it’s an extremely tiny expense in comparison to an entire company’s expenditures and to the size of the national economy, so why should it command so much attention? Surely then, economic arguments don’t merit giving spam much more attention than we give the zillions of other wastes of money business engage in on a daily basis.

If the complaints about it are based on the “flick” cumulative annoyance factor, then I guess it’s up to you to decide what you find annoying enough to demand sweeping regulations and countermeasures against. I have found it rather easy to avoid large quantities of annoying spam, and deal with it quickly and easily if I couldn’t, but apparently this is not the case for some of you. So be it.

Either way, I see no point in continuing to argue about it, so consider this thread over, at least as to my involvement in it. You are free to continue the discussion without me, let the thread die, or to close the thread. I responded to posts directed almost solely at me for over 2 days now, and provided this summary of my conclusions, so I think I’ve done all I’m obligated to do in this thread.

You could use the same argument for saying we shouldn’t hate telemarketers. It’s not worth it, though. The one time in five years I’ve gotten a sales pitch on the phone I actually was interested in is not worth the annoyance of being called three, four times a week. And wading through spam does take a good portion of my day at my office – and I never have used my office email to sign up for anything on the web.

I have to use email. I can’t fax what I work on – the fax would butcher the graphic files. I can’t describe the artwork over the phone. I don’t have time to drive all over creation. I have to use email in my job, I have to send PDF files, often large ones, out through my email address. I always run the wire on account size limits due to the number of PDFs I shoot in and out of my mail account each day. A run of those goat-felching viagra ads and penis enlargement offers can clog up my email to the point where I bounce messages.

Fuck all telemarketers. Fuck all spammers. Fuck anyone who comes up and wastes my time trying to sell me something I didn’t ask for. I don’t do business with unsolicited sales pitches.

Spam should be illegal, just like spamming a fax machine is.

Actually, you haven’t provided any arguments whatsoever that could stand on their own for longer than two seconds. Every time you start to provide a pseudo-apology for spam (as in your last message) you are rather careful to discuss the issue only on your selective terms. You’ve been provided with a solid set of cites and articles that explain the very real cost of spam, yet you ignore them like a first class troll and persist in your wishful cubby-hole approach to “investigating” the matter.

The fact is that you either don’t have a clue as to the impact of spam on business (and the economy in general), or you really are being deliberately obtuse when you insist on downplaying the influence of spam. You are correct in one aspect though: the discussion is over.

And I suppose he still won’t be that annoyed with it when every company in America decides to use spam to advertise for free and brings down the entire internet infrastructure.

Spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam wonderful spaaaaaaam…

I wonder what’s worse, spam or pop-ups?

:frowning:

At least Rex isn’t defending pop-ups! At least, I don’t think he is.

The Rexdart philosophy, in 25 words or less “Hey, you’re only victims of a small theft, and I don’t care that they’re stealing from me, so shut up.”

:rolleyes:

Rex, you’re going to make a fabulous lawyer one day.

If 1% of the businesses in America sent you 1 e-mail that you didn’t request, you’d have 662 pieces of spam to deal with. Imagine that on a daily basis. And since e-mail is international, imagine how much worse it would be when you threw in the rest of the planet.

And that’s legit companies. It’s important to remember that many of the spam e-mails that are sent are in fact, frauds from companies that exist only for the purpose of conning consumers out of their money or otherwise hurting them. They hijack other people’s servers and e-mail addresses or take pains to spoof non-existent addresses to keep their identities hidden. Products being offered for sale are non-existent, are stolen, are illegally imported or are banned. The porn violates federal obscenity statutes. The drugs wouldn’t pass FDA muster. Software products are virus-laden or pirated or both.

The scariest ones are the mortgage refinancing ones that take you to a website which demands all manner of personal information so that you can be contacted about a great low rate loan – unfortunately, this info isn’t going to a bank in the U.S. which is legally permitted to make home loans, it’s going to servers in China, South Korea and Russia for who knows what purpose. Identity theft? Banking fraud? Only the spammers know for sure.

Junk snail mail doesn’t masquerade as anything other than it is. You can easily sort out ads and credit card solicitations from business correspondence and greetings from friends without ever having to open an envelope. Telemarketers notoriously block their numbers from Caller ID, making it simple to avoid those calls if you haven’t got the 30> seconds required to answer and hang up. There’s no advance warning of spam.

This morning, I got an e-mail that my crappy e-mail client told me was from Sarah, with no last name. Now, perhaps I’m the anomaly, but I know roughly a half-dozen women named Sarah, three of them professionally, so my inclination is to check the subject line. The subject was “Did you get the message that I called?” Since I’m unexpectedly absent from work these days, it’s not out of the realm of reasonably possibility that someone has left phone messages for me that i have not yet received. So of course I open it, only to be visually assaulted by a photo of a woman fellating a horse.

This was sent to my work e-mail address. Not an address I use to sign up for things online, and I don’t look at porn or sign up for porno e-mail anyway. But the address is out there, it’s on the company website (argh) and various other places. (I just googled the address and got four pages of results.) It’s fodder for the spambots now and there’s nothing I can do to stop the quota of spam that hits the address, and deleting the address will only increase the burden on myself – having to spread the word to legitimate users about the change – and my company’s mail servers which will have to bounce or redirect all the crap that will still come in to the address for ages to come.

This is not a minor inconvenience. This is a complete subversion of the purpose of e-mail and has to be stopped.

To everyone who actually gets spam, use www dot opera mail dot com. I typed it wrong so no spam searchers can get it.

In six months of use, I have never, ever gotten a single piece of spam. I use this email for several yahoo newsgroups and give it to friends as well. No filters are installed, it works beautifully.