Screw 'em.
This:
sounds like a wonderful arrangement.
Everything you have said about this man suggests emotional abuse at best. How much of your idea of being worthless in the job market comes from him? He has cut you off from friends and family. He has moved you far away from any physical support. He belittles you. He is so insecure in his manhood that he needs to take everyone elses ideas on what he should do over his own. You haven’t said that he has hit you, but honestly these are the steps.
You need to plan an escape. At the very least if you do not feel trapped there may be a way to have enough power for you to have some negotiating power in the marriage. At the moment you have none.
Get a plan. No one should be so totaly dependant. Even in marriages that work stuff happens. My mother was left alone at age 34 with three girls ages 6-15 when my father drowned. The fact that she had job skills saved us. Save a little out from your crochetting and get a correspondance course. Do something. Do not wait for it to be on his timing. He will time it to do the most damage to you and your kids.
Thanks for replying. Yes, that’s what I expected. (My Dad did something similar, but being an ex-coalman no-one argued with him :))
Grah. I want to hit people arguing against it though. Some stay-at-home parents (both sexes, but somewhat differently) really are layabouts (I’ve heard some women complain that after working all day they’re expected to do the housework, while their husband does nothing), but some are really doing what’s best for everyone, and everyone’s enjoying it.
[highjack]
Sorry? Can you explain the reasoning behind this comment please? Why do they deserve more respect than anyone else? I agree that sneering is not called for, but way more respect?
And how are they doing “something for their family above and beyond what most can do these days” ?
[/highjack]
Should be “why more respect?”
She didn’t say “More respect than anyone else,” Burnt Sugar. She said respect. And, SAHM’s & SAHD’s do deserve respect. Because it’s a difficult job that they take pride in and it’s central to their self respect and dignity. They work just as hard as their spouses, they just don’t get medical benefits or salaries. I was laid off for almost a year and did it. It’s flippin hard.
I was a stay at home mom when my two oldest kids were little. I too worked my ass off. I not only kept the house spotless, bills paid, groceries bought, meals cooked, yard mowed, weeds pulled, gardens grown, and kids driven around town, I took on three more kids as babysitting jobs. Three 3 year olds and two 1 year olds to entertain and chase and love. Everyday I had some sort of activities planned for them and while it was fun as hell, it was exhausting.
It was a hard job and I never once watched a soap opera or ate a bon-bon.
Even though I already had some college under my belt, I enrolled in night school. My husband’s income alone would not have been enough to pay for school so I took the initiative and used every dime I earned babysitting to pay for my school. I didn’t sleep and barely ate until I had a degree under my belt and a job lined up. School, kids, chores, was fucking hard as hell.
The degree allowed me to find a high paying job that would cover daycare (for partial days because my kids were now in Kindergarten and second grade) and gasoline and gave me a few extra dollars. JUST A FEW.
My husband wasn’t the asshole that yours seems to be, but shit happens and a few years later we got divorced. Because I was no longer “just a SAHM” and had worked very hard to make myself self supporting, I was able to support myself with my own income and child support. I am proud that I never had to turn to welfare or any other social services for assistance. I was not hurt financially whatsoever from the divorce because I didn’t leave myself vulnerable.
One of my biggest fears for women like you is that marriages can end and you will be left without a safety net. Will you be able to survive financially with little education and job skills if your husband were to leave you tomorrow? How will you make it if you were to become a single parent and have no other choice than to pay for daycare so you could support yourself? Would you have the luxury of going back to school?
I have read all your self-titled excuses and you’re right. It may cost you money to work or go to school (have you applied for a grant?) when you factor in daycare and fuel costs, but I can assure you that it is a very small price to pay to insure your future if the unforeseen happens.
Do you have a plan if the floor were to drop out tomorrow? What will your options be? Being in your situation, especially in a less than ideal marriage sounds very scary on your end of things.
Thank you. That had been driving me batshit for a while here.
BTW, how old are the kids?
There are many, many things an unskilled person can do. First off, you can do what you do best…watch kids and clean houses. Cleaning houses pays very well and your overhead is only a few bucks for supplies and gas. You pick your hours and your jobs. If a house is too disgusting, you don’t have to clean it. You can go through an agency and probably get some decent benefits for you and the kids. Or you can start your own business (my friend did).
Babysitting also pays well. I have a friend who was a companion/helper to a disabled guy, and she made really good money just getting him ready for work and cleaning his house.
What Beadalin said. I’ve read, I think, every thread you’ve written about him, including the one in which he was supposed to be participating, supposedly to help your marriage.
Sorry, I can’t remember how old your kids are, but IMNSHO, they’d have to be teenagers to be okay to leave at home, that far away. Also, there are sources, lots of them, that have mathematical info on the cons of working and trying to pay for daycare. But it’s not limited to daycare, there’s the care, gas habit, and upkeep of the car that you’ll be using FAR more working 40 whatever hours a week. There will be a wardrobe and the associated costs. There will be the need for lunch supplies for you, and on, and on, and on.
This man sounds like a dyed in the wool, leftover from the 50s MCP, and a BIG mean asshole to boot. I read your threads, and I just really really wish that I could do something to help you besides type.
I had a partner like that once. It took me a long time to be able to leave him. I had a child with him, and many of the things you say about your husband were true of this guy. I don’t know what to tell you, but SAHM or not, you ARE a worthwhile person.
Being a SAHM doesn’t make you less of one, having few jobs skills doesn’t make you less of one. This man needs a huge womp upside the head, and a reality check. The only thing I can suggest is to arm yourself with documentation regarding SAHMotherhood, complete with the mathematic information about how much it would actually COST for you to go to work.
Also, there are programs designed to assist people in paying for a secondary eduction. Plus, as I did, many times you can find student work programs within the college.
Best of luck to you.
bolding mine.
What part of Dragongirl’s statement
didn’t you read? Or get?
See, it helps if you actually read the whole OP.
Now, IF the man in question were a SAHD, and the SAHD details had been agreed upon and worked out between the two parties, and IF then people started saying he was lazy, and IF they were saying he was a lazy because " a man should have a job", then yeah, THAT would be sexist.
But that scenario has nothing to do with the actual situation here, in THIS thread.
If however, two people are working, and the man suddenly doesn’t have his job anymore, and then sits around not lifting a finger and slugging back budweiser like it’s going out of style. Then he IS a lazy asshole.
IF on the other hand, the couple decides, well heck, one of us might as well be the SAHP, and since you’re not working, you can do it, and then he actually DOES all the 24/7 work that comes with being a SAHP, that’s a totally different case.
I knew you were a jerk, but I always thought you had more sense and logic than that.
canvas shoes you missed DtC’s appology.
I also apologize for the crochet crack and the overall tone of my first post (especially the “parasite” remark.)
This attitude toward any parent that stays home to be with their kids, no matter what their age, is utterly ignorant. Taking care of children is a very important thing. These little people will grow up and they are going to hopefully be productive members of society. Now… how do they get that way? Hmmm, maybe good parenting is the answer. By Jove, perhaps it is.
SAHPs are a valuable part of society and fuck anyone who claims otherwise. I say parents because SAHDs are just as valid and important.
No, I just hadn’t gotten to it yet. And I’m sorry DtC, I guess I had an emotional reaction to YOUR emotional reaction, having HAD two (not at the same time of course) of those beer guzzling “sits on the couch watching TV all day bums who whined the same pathetic “if I was a woman no one would say anything” whine” kinda SAHBums.
Ummmm, NO, the reason people are saying stuff is NOT because you’re (men who do this, not you personally) a SAHD, it’s because you’re getting all the benefits of a working partner and holding up NONE of your end of the bargain.
I worked 8-10 hours a day, not counting when I went to prudhoe bay for 2 to 3 weeks of 7/12s and STILL had to do all the errands, bills, paperwork, housework, cooking and childcare.
The father of my son was verbally and emotionally abusive, and by the time I was finally able to leave him, he had me believing I was not only the stupidist, most useless, most worthless person, but the ugliest, most undesireable woman on the face of the planet. In fact, he got me to the point where I wondered if I even qualified as a human being.
And all for the dubious “benefit” of having hin as a partner. And it sure seems that Dragongirl is in a very similar situation, abusive man-wise that is.
It it…but providing for your children is also important. All the quality time in the world doesn’t make up for substandard living arrangements.
I think SAHPs are great - but it takes resources to be a SAHP - internal resources like patience (my issue). Partnership resources like a supportive spouse who wants you to SAH (Dragongirl’s issue). Financial resources - either having a spouse who makes a good enough income to allow it, or having some other financial resources to draw on.
I believe she said that her children are 11 and 9, and one, her daughter, is developmentally disabled. NOT good candidates for being at home by themselves.
But yeah, they should be getting their own breakfasts.
dragongirl-remember this-even if there ARE good things-you need to look at BOTH. And in this instance, it looks like the bad outweighs the good. We’re not talking about minor annoyances, like never following a recipe right, or being a soft touch when it comes to training the dog, (channeling my own dad here!).
We’re talking about emotional and verbal abuse. The man makes you cry, treats you like a child, doesn’t even help with his kids, and acts like he’s the Prince of Husbands just because he doesn’t beat you or cheat on you. If that’s the BEST thing you can think of, about your spouse, then it’s time to rethink the part about him being your spouse.
Do you want your son growing up thinking this is how a man treats his family? Is that a GOOD thing?
So he only gets one day off? So what? When is YOUR day off? He only works until three on Saturdays-can’t he look after the kids when he gets home? You take care of two kids, keep house, listen to his crap, seven days a week.
You deserve much better, sweetie. He’s abusing you, all right, even if it’s not physical-the only difference is that your scars are harder to see.
And don’t knock crocheting, people-it’s a lot of work and the results can be stunning. You should see some of the gorgeous afghans my grandmother has made for people-they’d go for big bucks at bazaars and fairs and things like that.
OH. Horse PUCK EEEE!!!
Otherwise, why didn’t we end up with millions of severely mentally damaged people after the great depression? Those folks lived in a situation that was FAR below “substandard living”. Um, folks in the Appalachians? They’re very, very broke.
Hell, I grew up dirt poor. Didn’t stop me from getting a decent education, a good career, being reasonably well adjusted, happy, and normal.
Not to mention, there’s a monstrous difference between having to sacrifice a little so that one parent can stay at home, and living in far below the poverty line.
And FTR, living in as you call it “substandard” living arrangements can happen even WITH both parents working. To make a blanket statement that it SAHParenthood that is to blame is very silly.
Also, as several posters have already lined out, and very logically at that, for the SAHP to try to enter the workforce many times carries with it a cost which overrides their going to work outside the home.
And I agree with Sanguine, it’s really insulting to arbitrarily decide for other people what is an “allowable” age for kids to have a SAHP.
Exactly.
I am a working mother and have been since my two older kids entered school (see by above post). I have been a working mom my third child’s entire life (I went back to work when he was 10 weeks old).
I have made sure that I got them the best care possible while I was working – in the form of a daycare licensed next door neighbor who loved them as her own. Her family is still my kid’s second home. I have always spend quality time with my kids and made sure I fulfilled my duties as a mom above and beyond what most of the SAHM (those I know personally) do. Because I work, I have the financial ability to take my children traveling around the world and to experience many things in life that most of their friends aren’t able to.
I have also taught them by example to be responsible and ambitious and to be successful.
I have a lot of respect for SAHM, but I resent the implication that because I am not in the home 24-7 for my kids, that I am somehow substandard to the parent who is. Just because a mother stays home with the child doesn’t not insure that the child is getting a better upbringing than a child whose mother works. It is irrelevant.
Where did I say people would end up severely mentally damaged? I’m simply saying that you have a responsibility to meet both the material and emotional needs of your children. In order to meet the material and emotional needs, you may need to live a life that is other than your own ideal. Moreover, I’m referring to “resources” – in Dragongirl’s case, they aren’t financial – they are the support of her idiot spouse.
And that, as much of a jackass as Dragonboy is, he does have a right to an opinion about whether his wife is a stay at home mom. And that the reality is, he may choose to exercise his right to an opinion by leaving - which will leave Dragongirl with even less options than she has now.
BTW, who is saying her kids should be home alone?