When we get back from Vegas I think I can’t stop myself from getting another dog. This time, though, we are not going to screw the dog up! We are going to have a well-trained dog who helps old ladies across the street, delivers babies in taxis, and never, ever yells fire in a crowded theater. (We are going to have a dog who is entirely housebroken!)
It will be an adult shelter dog, so I guess it depends on the dogs as to how much and what kind of training has already been done. I want to take the dog to a group obedience class at the city obedience club or PetSmart or something for the socialization aspect as well as the “learn it in the middle of a busy store” aspect, but of course we’ll also want to work on our own.
The thing is, there seems to be a lot of… controversy in the area. People either love Cesar Milan or they hate him (the dog trainer I got to work with poor imperfect bitey Haplo would get livid on the topic - said trading in a pushy dog for a terrified one was a bad bargain) and then there’s the clicker thing and so on and so forth. I’m almost done reading The Other End of the Leash, which has been very interesting, but isn’t really a step by step manual. So what’s the straight dope?
I don’t have any specific methods to recommend, but being the parent of two well behaved dogs (one a husky/wolf, and she’ll heel off-leash), and also being a rescue dog foster parent, the most important part of training is consistency. Do the same thing, every time. Decide on the words you’ll use and the method you’ll use before you start, and if you have a partner, make sure you’re on the same page.
The second most important part of training is positive reinforcement all.the.time. When they do something right, get excited about it, and continue to praise for years and years, even when it’s second nature to them.
The third most important is time. It takes us at least 30 to 60 minutes a day with the foster dogs to teach them the basics, with a 95% success rate, in about 2 to 4 weeks.
Also, dogs listen and learn much better if they’re exercised daily. A dog with pent up energy will just want to play and not learn, and that will be a bad experience for both of you.
My instinct was to stick was as much positive training as possible – away from no/bad dog/smacking and toward praise/treat/leadership. Here’s one of my posts on positive housetraining, which was a big success with the dog I tried it on.
Note that you can most likely train any dog, but as far as helping old ladies across the street, each dog is an individual and that’s that; you will find he or she has peculiarities and proclivities.
I recommend that you go to www.shirleychong.com and sign up for her mailing list. See if she has any books available (The Well Mannered Dog is one, there is another about competitive obedience training that I forget the title of. They are all self-published, so they are available when she prints them up.) Shirley is a genius when it comes to dogs, and pretty much gives advice away for free. If you have a question, she’ll answer it, and tell you why, and help you generalize into a well-mannered dog. (Ha! A pun!)
Seriously. Go now. (At the very least, read her keepers page for ideas.)
I’d strongly recommend getting into an obedience class to get the hands-on demonstrations and experience. Books and methods can be great, but it’s not always easy to apply what you learn. Taking a class helps.
Any opinions on the PetSmart classes? The local obedience club’s schedule isn’t really in-tune with mine, although I could make it work if I really had to. I’m hesitant to go to the big box store (and also it’s about 30 minutes away) but if they do offer a consistently good experience then it certainly would be good for the dog to have the different experience, out there in the world with all the assholes.
I use the positive method. Bad behaviour is ignored, or briefly scolded while good behaviour is lavishly rewarded. Worked well on the first dog, and has done ok on the new pup who is more headstrong. I’m currently looking for better methods with her as her listeng skills are pretty poor yet.
I’ve read many books on dogs and training. One I really enjoyed recently was “Be The Dog.” I’m a big fan of dominance/pack theory.
Stanley Coren’s books on dog iintelligence - while not technically training books - provide good insight as to what is (or is not) going on inside those thick skulls.
Is the shelter you’re adopting from affiliated with a training facility? I think I posted in the other thread on shelter dogs that ours mandated a six-eight week obedience class with the adoption – the class was run by a training organization and we’ve continued classes with Max at their facility. It’s taking a lot of time (and money), but holy cats is it worth it.
We got a couple of books that didn’t do nearly as much for us as having the individual and group time with a professional trainer. Of course, our dog has a lot of dominance/aggression issues that we’re still working on nearly a year after we adopted him, so I think he needs the extra attention. Also, I learned more about how to read Max’s behavior with the trainer, rather than figuring it out from books. Good luck with finding the right dog and the right class!
I have a 6-month-old Beagle mix who finished a PetSmart puppy class in December. They use the positive reinforcement method, along with clickers (which I’d been concerned about, because I just don’t like clickers, but the trainer didn’t force us to use them). It was a good class, and Bailey definitely benefitted from the socialization and training – and I benefitted from having other puppy owners to talk to, and a trainer to ask questions of! I think it was worth the money (8 weeks for ~$120). I plan to take Bailey back for the next level, but not until she’s at least a year old: she’s got the basics and I continue to work with her, but I want her to finish growing and get through adolescence before any further formal training.
Sam and Rosie did pretty well with them. They’re socialization classes as much as obedience classes. Their biggest advantage (enforced training time), IMHO, breaks even with their biggest disadvantage (the whole class will pretty easily be brought down to the level of the person with the least control over their dog).
I’ve heard great and horrible things about PetSmart classes. Seems to depend on the store, the trainer, the students …
You want to decide whether you prefer certain training styles. For example, I will not use food or a clicker. If you have any such preferences, that will affect what is available to you.
About 1/2 year ago we were having some issues with our 6 month old pup. We hired a trainer who came to our house. Tho it was expensive (maybe $350 for 5 sessions), it worked really well for us because he worked on exactly what we wanted addressed most, and we were able to arrange to have all 5 family members present so we’d all be on the same page. The guy we worked with was fantastic, and we got great results. Money well spent IMO.
I’ve always had dogs and never used a pro trainer before. Would have said I never would. But in this instance it worked great. Of course, we were able to budget for the extra cost.
Got another pup last fall, and haven’t had the need for any professional assistance with that one.
The straight dope is that animal training isn’t a rulebook, its more like a toolbox. A variety of techniques and approaches can be effective, but maybe not all on the same dog or for the same thing. Clicker (operant conditioning) may work well on a food-motivated dog and badly on a dog without that personality. Some techniques may work well with a dominant personality, and badly with a submissive personality.
This may be confusing when paired with the cardinal rule of animal training (consistency, as noted above). Don’t flit between approaches, but if you have tried something consistently and for a while, its ok to try something else.
The clicker is just to mark the behavior, the reward given can be food, a favorite toy or game, a tummy rub, whatever the dog finds rewarding enough to work for. If you don’t want to use a clicker you can choose a unique word or sound to mark the behavior. And using treats to train doesn’t mean that you’re stuck carrying around a pocketful of biscuits forever, you wean the dog off food rewards as the training progresses.
I’m currently studying to be a dog trainer, and I intend to use positive methods only when I start working. From everything I’ve read and observed, using Ceasar Millan-type methods is ineffective and possibly harmful. He seems to (and I admit to not studying his technique closely although I have his books on my “to read” list) apply pack theory in a very heavy-handed way. Truly dominate dogs are rare, most are happy to have you be the leader. If you’re not fufulling that role in a consistent way that makes sense to them, they may feel that they have to step into that position. And even if your dog really does have dominance issues, flipping him over on his back and nipping at him with your hands isn’t the way to resolve them. As someone down thread said, you don’t want to trade your stubborn dog for a fearful one. Or worse, an aggressive one.
Patricia McConnell’s books are amazing, I also really like Pat Miller’s Don’t Shoot the Dog. I would urge you to find a trainer/class that uses positive methods of training with no physical corrections. Especially for an adult dog who’s history might be uncertain. (And thank you for adopting an adult dog! That’s awesome :))
Have fun in Vegas! And I’d love to see pics when your new doggie comes home!
I didn’t really use a training method, just a squirt gun. It doesn’t hurt him, but he hates it so much he doesn’t do the bad thing again, from chewing shoes to tearing at carpet to howling a few squirts of water and he never does it again.
I know how it works. No single method is a panacea. You give an excellent example of adapting to what works with bridging with tummy rubs instead of food. I think we agree.
The problem with this type of consequence is that it only works when you’re there to administer it. Dogs don’t know right from wrong, they know safe from dangerous. If chewing shoes when you’re in the room = squirt of water =dangerous then chewing shoes when he’s home alone = fun! = safe.
It also doesn’t address how to teach the correct behaviors.
Sorry, didn’t mean to imply that you didn’t understand it, I was clarifying for Zsofia. I prefer the clicker method for teaching most behaviors because it’s so precise and a unique sound, but of course there are other methods of positive training.
