What's the big deal with kids?

Great Debates
21

“Having children is right up there, biologically speaking, with eating & breathing.”

Hardly. Most people want children, and I suppose that’s good for the human race (although things have been carried a bit far).

But there are a good number of people like myself who have never had any desire to have children. Not when I was young, not now (I am middle-aged and HAVE been in long-term relationships). People are different and they want different things; some of us just have not one ounce of maternal or paternal instincts, and therefore we’d be nuts to have kids.

22

I can do this without kids, and afford more toys!

Although this statement might ring true for the in-laws, it’s absolutely false for the parents of the kids. USA today did an article a while back about how marital happiness hits an all time low after the first child is born, and doesn’t go back up until he/she’s out of the house. They simply prevent the closeness that can be achieved without them. There are dozens of studies that show that couples without children get along better than those with. Some argue that people who don’t intend to have children are better matched for each other. I just don’t buy it. I don’t want to sound like a jerk, but it’s difficult to keep the close communication and intimacy that makes a relationship really thrive when there’s a constant interruption that doesn’t go away until it goes off to college.

I’ll agree with you here, but unfortunately that’s not the trend! Studies also show that the better the education, the less likely to reproduce. I would guess this is because a highly educated person is more likely to have a kick-ass career with less room for children. It could also be that these trained thinkers have put enough thought into it to realize the extent of the commitment that a child brings.

http://www.killersurf.com/mojo

23

I’ll wager that what those studies actually show is not that those couples are less likely to have children, but that they are more likely to have smaller families. IE, they have fewer children per adult, but just as many of the adults have children.

It’s been my experience that my educated friends all have children - but none of us has more than two.

24

Being a young single guy who someday wants kids, I can say that my biggest motivation (at least conceptually) is the challenge of avoiding some of the mistakes that my own parents made while raising me. Not to rag on Mom and Dad or anything — I think they did a pretty decent job. I guess I just want to do better.

25

I have no reason for wanting kids. It was just an impulse that I’ve apparently always had. I have even made fairly major changes in the direction my life was going that I only realized in retrospect were made to ensure that I could be a dad.

As I put on the adoption application survey in response to the question: Why do you want to adopt a child?

“I want to warp a kid into my own image.”
(And yes, I know that I will never be successful, and no, I don’t think it’s right for any parent to try to correct their own mistakes vicariously by micro-managing their childrens’ lives.)

OTOH, the adoption caseworker, who initally exclaimed “You can’t say that!” seemed to understand what my answer really meant. I want to be their to show a child all the possibilities of life and of the world. I want to lay the foundation for knowledge and then help to build that into an edifice of understanding. Teachers can do a little of that, but they see only one or two years of a kid’s life. I am getting to explain the things that mystify my son regarding the sinking of the Titanic and the Bismarck and their rediscoveries when he is 6 and further expanding on that as he turns 8 and then 10. I get to watch him build on the foundations I laid and then begin to come to his own conclusions and develop his own insights. It is a really wonderful experience (or it will have been if I let him live to grow up–it (the experience), and they (the children), can also be really aggravating).

Tom~

26

June and Tom, ditto. (Especially the part about, if you let him live to grow up … only a parent who loves his/her own child more than life itself will really understand that part.)

My child has probably benefitted greatly from the fact that she looks like a clone of her daddy (“with the Y chromosome changed to X”) because it reminds me every time I look at her that she is not a little me and I really must not try to make her into my image.

27

If you don’t have kids, you get to buy lots of toys and play with them, without worrying about them being broken!

It’s also fun to help raise endangered species and watch them regain their hold on nature, as it was in the beginning. It’s also fun being able to volunteer at the local Boys & Girls Club and help others grow into mature responsible, well-rounded adults.

That’s so sad to me. I mean, everyone has their ways of adding love & laughter & optimism into their lives. However, what is sad is that a person has to have a child to do that. Or that people think having a child will somehow give them immortality. Whatever happened to mind-bending art, soul-drenching music, technological advances, medical wonders, etc.? When I list the following names do you remember them for their children? Or do you remember them for their achievements? Mohatmas Gandhi, Mother Theresa, Leonardo Da Vinci, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Jesus Christ.

Yes, there are some people who thoroughly think out having a child before making the decision to do so. Yes, there are some people who can capably love and raise a child, even if it was unplanned. Yes, there are people who make wonderful parents, both biologically as well as through adoption or foster parenting. We do not discredit these people. In fact, these are the kinds of people we need raising the future generations. However, this doesn’t mean everyone is cut out to be a parent. This doesn’t mean that some people are missing out on life becasue they choose to put their time, energy & money into activities, hobbies, or animals instead of adding another human life to this planet.

Childfrees should not harp on those parents who have made the decision consciously to have children. (For the most part, they don’t) Parents, too, should not harp on those who have made the decision cousciously to NOT have children. (For the most part, they do)

Besides, who are non-parents really hurting by not having babies? No one. Not one single person.

“I can never give a ‘yes’ of a ‘no.’ I don’t believe everything in life can be settled by a monosyllable” *Betty Smith

28

We spent three years classed as “infertile” before adopting our son. Then, the dice rolled right for us, and we have a “homemade” daughter as well.

Having decided to adopt and having explored infertility treatments, we really needed to ask ourselves WHY we wanted children. We wanted children because we felt that being parents was an important role for us to undertake. We thought we’d be good parents, we wanted to watch our children develop. Originally, exploring the infertility option, we had to agree that continuation of our genes was important, but, when that didn’t pan out, we discovered it wasn’t as important as we thought. (BTW, most infertile couples remain childfree rather than adopt, which implies the gene thing is very strong).

There are days (last weekend, both babies were sick) that I wonder if I was crazy, but most days I believe that it was the best decision of my life. My children are the most important thing in the world to me.

I’ve heard from a lot of infertile couples, especially women, who seem to have “expected” to get pregnant and be parents. Its part of who they see themselves as being. And for a woman with traditional “wife/stay at home mom” goals, being infertile is a major career stopper. (I would imagine the same is true for the occational man who thought “stay at home dad” would be the major feature of his resume).

I agree that not everyone needs children to be happy, and it certainly isn’t a requirement in society (although sometimes it feels like it is - and you can’t discount social pressure in the reasons people have children). One of the options we explored was remaining child free - and it did have its allure.

Tom, best wishes on your adoption journey. Feel free to e-mail me if you have any question.

29

Thanks to all who have answered. I’m still not sure I completely understand the need to have children, but I have at least an inkling of what different people perceive as the reasons they had them.

In this thread, at least, it seems as if the weight of numbers was primarily on the side of people with children. Despite the reports, perhaps us childfree/childless/whatever aren’t as popular as we’ve been told.

I feel so alone… :slight_smile:

30

I wouldn’t read too much into that. I doubt that this board represents an unbiased sample of the population and the opinions thereof…

One last comment. Trying to explain why I wanted to have kids is a lot like trying to explain why I love my wife. It’s an internal thing that is not easily externalized. I can enumerate qualities that attracted me to her, but none of this really even scratches the surface. If you’ve ever been truely in love, hopefully you’ll understand the delima and the inadequacies of the reasons people have been trying to share.

31

I’ve always had the feeling that in order for my life to be meaningful, I need to make an impact - leave society better off than I found it. One way this can be accomplished is by raising a good human being.

PeeQueue

32

Other small ways to make the world a better place:

  • Mentor people (both kids and adults) to help them learn new skills.
  • Write a book/create some art/play some music
  • Plant a garden
  • Make someone else laugh
  • Be polite and friendly (yes, it’s a little thing, but wouldn’t it be a great world if everyone did this?)
  • Thank your parents

I personally don’t think that contributing my own DNA to the pool is going to make as much of a difference in the world as my mentoring activities, but hey, that’s just me. Besides, I never understood why we keep focusing on “our future” (e.g. kids) while neglecting people who are already here (especially our older citizens, who have made and keep making contributions to our society).

Sorry for the ramble. I promise to be more coherent next time!

33

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by cher3:
**I’m not sure I buy this whole “overpopulation” thing. Everyone throws around the assumption that there are too many people with great confidence. It’s not how many people there are, it’s how we use resources.

With all due respect, cher3, more people use more resources and create more pollution. Whatever it takes to feed 6 billion people, it’s going to take twice that to feed 12 billion people. And they all need a place to live. And they’re all going to flush toilets and burn fossil fuel.

Imagine sharing a phone booth with one other person, then two, then three, then…

Get the idea?

There’s only so much habitable land on this planet. It’s finite. In fact, 25% of the planet is land, and that’s shrinking as we accelerate global warming, causing the oceans to rise and invade more land.

How long can you tread water?

Jerry Steinberg
Founding Non-Father
NO KIDDING! www.nokidding.bc.ca

Jerry Steinberg
Founding Non-Father
NO KIDDING!
www.nokidding.bc.ca

34

Not only are you NOT alone, you’re in very good company.

If you’d like to meet other childfree couples and singles, visit the NO KIDDING! website to see if there’s a chapter near you.

Jerry Steinberg
Founding Non-Father
NO KIDDING!
www.nokidding.bc.ca

35

I had a vasectomy when I was 25. I was (and remain) convinced that I did not want to physically reproduce. I was also convinced that parenthood was not my personal choice.

When I was 27, circumstances compelled me to adopte two children.

On the one hand, raising children has contributed more to my personal growth than any other experience in my life. On the other hand, it’s a damn hard and expensive job, and has distracted me from many personal goals.

I’ve seen this issue from the extremes of both sides. All I can say is that you shouldn’t have children unless you must have children for your own personal reasons. Don’t have them because they’re cute, or fun, or you think you should, or you want to “save your marriage”. Have them because that’s the highest personal desire you have.

You will sacrifice much, and gain little outside the fulfillment of that inner desire. But that fulfillment, even to a person such as myself, is considerable.

Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

36

We’re higher in number than it appears through representation here. We just tend to hide out for fear of being reprimanded, chastised and criticized anytime we mention we don’t want to have children. You might want to check out www.childfree.net for a great e-mail discussion list. Also, there’s another list with less traffic at www.egroups.com called “CFbyChoice” and another one at egroups for women only called “Pride and Joy”. Just some suggestions on places to go to find other CFs, even if it’s just for more information and opinions. No Kidding is also a great thing if you have one near you.

Cheers!

“I can never give a ‘yes’ of a ‘no.’ I don’t believe everything in life can be settled by a monosyllable” *Betty Smith

37

[quote]
All I can say is that you shouldn’t have children unless you must have children for your own personal reasons.

[quote]

Exactly true!

My comments were intended to give an insight (however limited) into why I was prompted to have kids. That was in answer to the OP:

I have never encouraged anyone to have children. It is way too personal an issue to have other people “suggesting” ways to encumber one’s life.

I have noticed a faint thread runnning through this topic by a few of the people who have chosen to not have kids that seems to be a bit defensive. (Look at all the things you/we could do if we didn’t have that burden.) Hey! Folks! Lighten up! We aren’t your parents begging for grandkids! I may have missed one, but I did not see any post arguing that we should all breed. I saw a number of people indicating why they have chosen to be parents.

I do not preach parenting to the childfree; I do not accept that having kids is wrong.

(Dangerosa, we’ve had ours seven-and-a-half years. I don’t need answers–just asylum.)

Tom~

38

BTW, for a discussion of overpopulation, do a search on this Forum for the title 6 billion? that ended in January or February. It ran too long and there is a lot of sludge posted there, but there is also a lot of good information.

If someone wants to resurrect that Topic, I would ask that they start a new Topic and provide a link to the old one. It is way too big, already.

Tom~

39

Hope this is a typo. Otherwise I think it’s a somewhat unfair generalization.

The SDMB Smoke-Out Continues
I have been smoke free for over 2 weeks.

40

Generalization, yes, but unfair? I think it depends on your environment and where you live. I’ve been told so many times that “I’ll change my mind” when it comes to not having kids (I’ve been refused a tubal even though I’m 30 – try again next year!). Being a woman who chooses not to have kids appears to be rather unacceptable, at least where I live. If parents would just let the subject drop rather than telling me “you’ll change your mind”/“it’s different when they’re your own”/“you’re just being selfish”/“you’ll be able to juggle kids and your career”, I wouldn’t be quite so defensive.

But that’s just my personal experience.

Anna