what's the deal with shaking hands?

[trapezoidal_jellyfish]

anu-la, I’m confused about why you quoted my post but seem to be responding to ZPG Zealot. Was that a mistake, or did you not understand what I was saying?

@Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party

[QUOTE=trapezoidal jellyfish]

See, this is what I’m talking about. I’m not offended when someone puts out their hand to shake. I don’t make a fuss. When I shake hands, I don’t feel violated or raped. However, we all have slightly different boundaries of our personal space that we don’t like people invading. Mine are different than yours. I’m not saying “I don’t think you are worthy of my touch.” I’m not saying “I don’t think you are clean.” I’m saying, “I would like to refrain from an action that strains my own specific personal boundary.”

Huh? You spent a couple of lines in your OP complaining about not knowing where people’s hands had been, sweat, and “swapping bodily fluids” . Now you’re saying refusing to shake hands has nothing to do with these things but instead some BS about “personal boundaries”? Then why did you mention them?
[/QUOTE]

You’re right, that is really unclear. I’m sorry about that. When I wrote the OP I was ranting and presented my views as being more extreme than they are. Also, reading the multiple responses to it has helped me refine my opinion, and that came out in the later post that you quoted. I’m going to try to clarify this discussion a bit.
I think there are two separate issues here. First, there are people like me who don’t like shaking hands, for assorted reasons. Many of those reasons are entirely personal and don’t have anything to do with the other hand-shaker. Since shaking hands is a social convention, it is rude to make a public fuss about this. Depending on the situation and how it is handled by each person, there may be valid reason to be offended when someone doesn’t shake your hand. Yet, there are people who get all riled up at the mere IDEA of someone just not liking to shake other people’s hands (and, might I add, I never said I actually have a policy of not shaking hands). Why does this make people so upset?

The second issue is why people don’t like doing it. I’m sure everyone has their own reasons, so I’m just going to try and articulate mine as best as I can. To use Odesio’s language, there are different levels of intimacy. Different actions are usually associated with a very small range of possible levels. However, there is still a range. I feel that physical contact like shaking hands is a little too intimate for a stranger. I can’t give a logical reason why, it’s just what my gut says. It’s probably related to my embarrassment about my sweaty palms, not knowing where other people’s hands have been, or worse- knowing where they’ve been. There’s also the fear of being judged for my handshake. That’s all kind of hidden below the surface, though. The thought “ew, a hand, maybe he went to the bathroom and didn’t wash up” doesn’t run through my mind. Ultimately it is just a slightly uncomfortable feeling regardless of who the other person is- it could be someone who just scrubbed his hands to perform surgery, and I’d feel the same way. So I guess hygiene isn’t irrelevant here, but it’s not the main issue for me. I hope this helps clarify my own opinion, and maybe it will help someone else understand their’s also.

It also might be worth mentioning that even though Odesio originated the terminology I’m using, he/she seems to disagree with me about the intimacy of handshaking.

[Alessan]

Have you considered clicking your heels together and bowing from the waist? People will think you’re weird (and possibly Prussian) but they probably won’t be offended.

Of course, you’ll have to wear a monocle for it to really work.

[Mijin]

Agree with those that have said handshaking is a very important ritual in the western world. Unless you’ve had your right hand blown off or something, no-one is going to understand why you can’t shake their hand. Just wash your hands every time, if you must, and see it as yet another dumb convention of society – there are many others.

@Richard Pearse

You don’t need strong hands to give a firm handshake, my 4 year old daughter can give a suitably firm handshake, you just keep your wrist firm and grip with your hand as if you were holding on to something.

It’s a minefield though – what one person considers too firm another will consider too limp. You have to judge it based on some expectation of how firmly the other person is going to grip.
Shaking hands with women requires particular judgement IME.

[Thudlow_Boink]

@trapezoidal_jellyfish

I feel that physical contact like shaking hands is a little too intimate for a stranger. I can’t give a logical reason why, it’s just what my gut says.

Well, but that’s kind of the point. The handshake is part of the ritual of meeting someone for the first time; it turns them from a stranger into someone who’s not a stranger, someone you’ve made a connection with. So when you don’t want to shake hands (with someone in particular or with people in general), it sends the message that you don’t want a connection with them; you want them to remain a stranger.

[Richard_Pearse]

@Mijin

It’s a minefield though – what one person considers too firm another will consider too limp. You have to judge it based on some expectation of how firmly the other person is going to grip.
Shaking hands with women requires particular judgement IME.

I’m pretty sure there’s a middle ground that’ll work 99% of the time.

[kayaker]

@Lanzy

Fist bump is growing in popularity.

Heh. I don’t like handshaking, though I don’t “hate” it either. I sometimes preemptively initiate a fist bump to both be silly and avoid a handshake. The other thing I’ve done is to accept the proffered hand, but then use it to pull the person in for a hug. For people I’m very close to, it is accepted, for people I am not close to, it is tolerated. After all, if you initiate a shake, how can you not accept a hug?

[marshmallow]

The handshaking custom is a societal Darwin award waiting to happen, just as soon as the proper zombie plague comes along. I guess we won’t be hit as hard as those cultures where they kiss strangers though.

[Broomstick]

@trapezoidal_jellyfish

Would someone really not hire me for a job because I didn’t shake hands with the interviewer? Would someone say about me, “nice person, good friend, but… doesn’t shake hands?”

Since I work in manual labor these days refusing to shake the hand of a prospective boss could cost me a job. And yes, they do want you to shake their hand firmly - if you have weak hands or a weak handshake they might very suspect you don’t have the physical strength to do the job. But not that many people work at jobs where physical strength is an issue.

Customers also like to shake my hand. It’s courtesy on their part, treating me like one of the guys, and also I suspect in some cases they’re suspicious a cute little woman doesn’t have the strength to do the job. Well, a firm handshake helps. On the other hand, if my hands are nasty/filthy/full of paint/whatever I will mention that to people before handshaking commences.

So, it’s going to vary. Some people don’t want to shake your hand (such as Orthodox Jewish men). Some people will wait for you to indicate that you desire to shake hands. Some will be offended if you decline, and some won’t. And yes, there are people who would say “nice person but… doesn’t shake hands?”

[UncleRojelio]

@Ogre

:rolleyes: Dopers can be such a precious lot.

You can say that again.

[tdn]

@AClockworkMelon

Trampling on rights and emotions? Asserting dominance? Jesus Christ.

So I’m not the only one who feels like he just stepped into the Twilight Zone while reading this thread?

There are times when I refuse to shake someone’s hand – if I’ve been eating cheese doodles or baby back ribs, for instance – but in those cases I explain why, and the other person always understands.

[ZPG_Zealot]

@Richard_Pearse

@Mijin

It’s a minefield though – what one person considers too firm another will consider too limp. You have to judge it based on some expectation of how firmly the other person is going to grip.
Shaking hands with women requires particular judgement IME.

I’m pretty sure there’s a middle ground that’ll work 99% of the time.

Of course, there is and it’s very simple. It’s called accepting the differences between other people and asking permission before you try to touch someone.

[ZPG_Zealot]

@Thudlow_Boink

@trapezoidal_jellyfish

I feel that physical contact like shaking hands is a little too intimate for a stranger. I can’t give a logical reason why, it’s just what my gut says.

Well, but that’s kind of the point. The handshake is part of the ritual of meeting someone for the first time; it turns them from a stranger into someone who’s not a stranger, someone you’ve made a connection with. So when you don’t want to shake hands (with someone in particular or with people in general), it sends the message that you don’t want a connection with them; you want them to remain a stranger.

And what the heck is wrong with that if you’re doing business with people, not marrying into their family? I certainly don’t expect most of the people I have work related interactions with to be anything other than strangers to me. At least as far as trust and intimacy, etc., are concerned.

[AClockworkMelon]

@ZPG_Zealot

@Richard_Pearse

I’m pretty sure there’s a middle ground that’ll work 99% of the time.

Of course, there is and it’s very simple. It’s called accepting the differences between other people and asking permission before you try to touch someone.

Offering your hand is asking permission to touch. If someone asked me “do you mind if I shake your hand?” before offering their hand I’d think they were a social retard- and rightly so.

[Tom_Scud]

@AClockworkMelon

Trampling on rights and emotions? Asserting dominance? Jesus Christ.

Yeah, just ask all those moneylenders trying to make a decent living in the Temple.

[anu-la1979]

@ZPG_Zealot

@Richard_Pearse

I’m pretty sure there’s a middle ground that’ll work 99% of the time.

Of course, there is and it’s very simple. It’s called accepting the differences between other people and asking permission before you try to touch someone.

Of course, there is and it’s very simple. It’s called moving to a foreign country and insisting that society as a whole conform its secular social customs to my ethnically intolerant and extremist religious code. See? Simple!

[Sarahfeena]

@AClockworkMelon

@ZPG_Zealot

Of course, there is and it’s very simple. It’s called accepting the differences between other people and asking permission before you try to touch someone.

Offering your hand is asking permission to touch. If someone asked me “do you mind if I shake your hand?” before offering their hand I’d think they were a social retard- and rightly so.

See, ZPG, shaking hands is not done by reaching out and GRABBING the person’s hand as it’s hanging at their side. It’s sticking out your hand and waiting for the other person to reach out similarly and put their hand in yours. Implied request for permission, right there. No need to put it in words.

[tdn]

@Sarahfeena

No need to put it in words.

I’d prefer a written contract, just to be on the safe side.

[Gestalt]

@Sarahfeena

@AClockworkMelon

Offering your hand is asking permission to touch. If someone asked me “do you mind if I shake your hand?” before offering their hand I’d think they were a social retard- and rightly so.

See, ZPG, shaking hands is not done by reaching out and GRABBING the person’s hand as it’s hanging at their side. It’s sticking out your hand and waiting for the other person to reach out similarly and put their hand in yours. Implied request for permission, right there. No need to put it in words.

In all fairness though, you can’t really turn down the request without looking like a total douche.

BTW, I’m falling down laughing at the idea of a world where everyone goes around saying, “do you mind if I shake your hand?”

[Tom_Scud]

@Gestalt

BTW, I’m falling down laughing at the idea of a world where everyone goes around saying, “do you mind if I shake your hand?”

Unfortunately, not all human knowledge is yet posted in convenient forms on the Internet, or I’d post a link to an illustration of Obelix the Gaul misunderstanding the phrase “May I shake you by the hand?”

[Sarahfeena]

@Gestalt

@Sarahfeena

See, ZPG, shaking hands is not done by reaching out and GRABBING the person’s hand as it’s hanging at their side. It’s sticking out your hand and waiting for the other person to reach out similarly and put their hand in yours. Implied request for permission, right there. No need to put it in words.

In all fairness though, you can’t really turn down the request without looking like a total douche.

I 100% disagree. A polite, “I’m sorry, I don’t shake hands” is perfectly polite and not douchelike at all.