I’ve also wondered what the signature sound of the '00s will be: the current style of rap was prominent well into the mid-90s. The current rock sounds more like a fusion of hardcore emo and stadium rock than anything new, and doesn’t break any new territory.
I wonder if the signature sound of the ‘00s is rage rock, i.e. that particular fusion of grunge and nu-metal, minus the previous genres’ creativity and social insight. i.e. bands such as System of a Down and Taproot. Despite the fact that it’s an easy genre to make music in I can’t point at anything previous that sounds exactly like it. And this is coming from someone who hates most rage rock (moreso than one would expect through simply applying Sturgeon’s Law,) and is very glad that it’s been replaced by a smoother, less aggressive sound.
The mid '90s marked the transition from West Coast G-Funk to the renaissance of the East Coast. Today Southern genres like Crunk and Snap are at the forefront of the industry. You could maybe peg the beginning of this trend at the late '90s with the rise of Cash Money and No Limit, but as dominant hip hop forces, these are very much '00s phenomena.
If you want to claim that Crunk and neo-East Coast styles are truly new styles you’d have to give the same leeway to emo (which to be truthful I didn’t see you refute). But I see all three as simply a new arrangement of previously-existing elements which, moreover, cannot be seen as the “defining music” of the current era due to lack of ubiquity which, sadly, rage rock possessed in the early 2000’s. (I’m not familiar with “Snap”.)
I do give much the same leeway to emo. The most significant differences (and they are significant enough) are that emo has existed since the mid '80s, and emo itself is an evolution of hardcore, a subgenre of punk. Emo is a movement more than 20 years old, and has always been firmly part of the punk scene, which is now something like 30 years old.
However, Southern hip-hop is not a subgenre of a subgenre (in that emo is a subgenre of punk and punk is a subgenre of rock). It is a shift into a new realm. The difference between mid '00s southern hip hop and mid '90s G-funk is as big as the difference between, say, '60s psychedelia and '70s punk. They are entirely different genres.
If you wanted a comparison, snap is to crunk as emo is to punk. Snap is a style of Southern rap distinguished by the finger snaps used in place of the snare beat. It usually features simplistic electronic melodies and is lightweight and club-ready. Think “Laffy Taffy,” “Lean Wit’ It Rock Wit’ It” or “Oh I Think They Like Me.”
What you call “rage rock” seems to be a hangover of nu-metal that filled the niche market of modern rock radio until emo superseded it. I don’t see what those acts were doing as either new or popular.
Well, you’re not wrong, but it’s different from my perspective. I think we only differ in degrees anyway. I also don’t disagree that rap will be seen as the “Defining music” of the mid 90s up until the present (even though it existed since the late 70s), while not exclusively of “today” (i.e. post-9/11, since IMHO we are still in the same era musically and otherwise.)
Um…where are you coming from with all this? I was responding to another poster’s assertion that Kanye West is trying to bring rap into more of a “live band” context, and pointing out that it’s been done very successfully already.
As far as the “old white guys” dig…I hope that wasn’t directed at me, because I’m neither old nor white.
And that’s the problem I see in discussions on hip-hop on these boards and others: people are insisting in applying rock musical values in analyzing hip-hop. Of course they’ll be frustrated by hip-hop, because hip-hop is not rock and does not have the same values.
I would have to say that 90s popular music was definitely defined by hip-hop. “Grunge” and all that was just a flash-in-the-pan fad, for the most part (speaking as someone who listens primarly to rock music). Hip-hop is all pervasive and has been for about the last two decades.
I would say the OP’s initial list of decades and genres would be somewhat accurate if only classifying defining rock music of those genres; I too, though, would have to say the 80s would be better represented by hair/glam/stadium rock/metal than by New Wave.
Not really an accurate answer. “Rap” refers only to the vocal style–the whole rhythmic spoken word thing. What music is behind it (or whether) is different. “Rap” does not in any way connote a capella, though neither does it preclude it.
Or perhaps “indie” music as a catch-all for all that Grey’s Anatomy/Garden State/Last Kiss soundtrack stuff: Josh Radin, Elliott Smith, Belle and Sebastian, Iron and Wine, Calexico, the Decemberists, the Shins… not all the same, but they make more sense lumped together than just shelved in the “pop/rock” section.
I was critiquing your idea that Kanye “needs” to check out the Roots and BEP (and even if you mean pre-Elephunk, that’s still a god awful idea). The best part of Kanye’s live show, apart from Kanye, is his DJ, A-Trak. The string section is just there to stroke his ego. The idea that Kanye, to be a successful artist, needs to include more live instrumentation in his show, that is, to be more like a rock artist, is patently ridiculous.
It was not directed at you. Usually the people who wish rappers would play proper instruments and be more like rock artists are old white guys. Some old white guys are advanced enough to have discovered the Roots. These ones wish that rappers would be more like the Roots (they apparently haven’t noticed that Black Thought is a solid but unexceptional rapper who has never come up with a memorable line, let alone a verse, in his life. Why’d do you think the best thing the Roots have ever been involved with is Jay-Z’s live record?)
I’m a young white guy who always thought that the Roots and the BEPs were always overrated. But then again, I love Outkast, Jurassic 5, Deltron 3030, Kool Keith, MC Paul Barman, and oh yes, Dre, Snoop, and Kanye West as well.
For the people who have not yet found a way to appreciate hip hop:
Are lyrics important to you? Or just music; sound? If it’s the latter, it might be a hard leap for you to make. If it’s the former, try some of the better writers in hip hop. Might help you appreciate the music as “art,” and then the appreciation of the sounds involved will inevitably follow.
Not all hiphoppers are “gangstas,” writing about guns and “bitches.” Michael Franti, of Spearhead, writes powerful lyrics about things like political justice and life’s little joys. His stuff is very personal and positive. Lauryn Hill’s The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill–one of the greatest albums of the rock era–is also about real life; hopes and dreams; struggles and joys. Beautiful writing, in a more R&B setting; less hardcore hiphoppy. One of my lifetime topten albums is Lucas’s *Lucas with the Lid Off * (also, this is the album that first broke the hiphop barrier for me; before this, I liked “every kind of music by rap”). Lucas writes about the human struggle to stay true to yourself. It’s an album of self exploration, not about cars and bling.
For the people who have not yet found a way to appreciate hip hop:
Are lyrics important to you? Or just music; sound? If it’s the latter, it might be a hard leap for you to make. If it’s the former, try some of the better writers in hip hop. Might help you appreciate the music as “art,” and then the appreciation of the sounds involved will inevitably follow.
Not all hiphoppers are “gangstas,” writing about guns and “bitches.” Michael Franti, of Spearhead, writes powerful lyrics about things like political justice and life’s little joys. His stuff is very personal and positive. Lauryn Hill’s The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill–one of the greatest albums of the rock era–is also about real life; hopes and dreams; struggles and joys. Beautiful writing, in a more R&B setting; less hardcore hiphoppy. One of my lifetime topten albums is Lucas’s *Lucas with the Lid Off * (also, this is the album that first broke the hiphop barrier for me; before this, I liked “every kind of music by rap”). Lucas writes about the human struggle to stay true to yourself. It’s an album of self exploration, not about cars and bling.
I don’t think we’re in disagreement anywhere here. What I meant is that KW needed to check out the aforementioned acts if he wanted to see ways to successfully incorporate live instrumentation into his act. However, I don’t think going the “band” route is the only way for rap to be musically valid or interesting. FWIW, if I were to list off my ten favorite rap groups/artists, none of them use live instruments to any significant degree.
I think you and I have different ideas of what constitutes “old.” Here, a test: I’m 33. I bought LL Cool J’s Radio album on cassette tape when it was brand new. I got it from Columbia House (12 tapes for a penny!) along with Van Halen’s 1984 and ten other, much less memorable selections. Am I old?
