The low bar is the problem, as many cops interpret as “no bar.” I just watched a video today where the police called a K-9 unit on an out-of-state driver because they refused to answer questions about their travel plans.
The problem is the bar is: disrespected me and didn’t obey my unlawful orders
Some are insane. Recently someone got a $6.5M settlement for a traffic stop around ten years ago. A 17-year old driver was tasered twice, pulled from his car and dropped face-first on the street, resulting in losing some teeth and a fractured skull. The inciting incident was the cop asking him to roll down his window, and accusing the kid of resisting and disobeying his orders when he “started rambling” instead of lowering the window; he was trying to explain the window was broken and wouldn’t lower.
Most feel the case reached this point because the driver’s father was a cop, and you hear him off-camera going off on the cop.
The challenge always is, to what extent do you TRY to interact with the LEO in the hopes that your inconvenience will be minimized, vs the risk that any cooperation might be misinterpreted/used to INCREASE your inconvenience.
A good rule to remember is that it is exceedingly rare for people to get in trouble for what they DIDN’T say. No need to be impolite. Not a bad idea to learn the ID requirements - at least in your home state. Pretty common to have to tell your name and address if asked. MAY need to show your ID (if you are carrying it.) If driving, pretty common to be required to provide driver’s license and proof of insurance.
But beyond that, there is no need to engage in small talk with cops. No need to explain where you are going/coming from, where you live/work, why you think you were stopped, etc. No need to respond in any way when the cop comments that it is “unusual” for you not to want to chat with him. And - absent some unusual circumstances, rarely a bad idea to refuse to consent to a search of the car - or field sobriety tests.
In most states, the only time you are required to provide name, address, and DoB - either with a laminated ID (e.g. your DL) or verbally - is when the LEO has a reasonable articulable suspicion (RAS) you have committed a crime. The same goes for being detained… in most states, the only time an LEO can legally detain you is when they have RAS you have committed a crime.
If the cop doesn’t have RAS, it means you can’t be detained. And you’re not required to provide your name, address, and DoB. But they can still ask. And then it’s up to you whether or not you want to provide it.
The biggest problem is that LEOs routinely detain people and demand their name, address, and DoB when they don’t have RAS they have committed a crime. “Someone made a phone call, so you are detained! Give me your ID!”
I saw one thing that I, sadly, have not really had the opportunity to try yet. When the cop asks where you are coming from, the appropriate response is a thumb over your shoulder & the answer to where are you going is a finger pointed towards the windshield. No words necessary but you can’t be accused of being uncooperative & not answering his questions.
We went thru a DUI checkpoint last year but sadly I was in the passenger seat. I despise drunk drivers & have read of studies (no cite, though) that concluded the cops would nail more drunks sitting in the parking lots of bars than on a random road where they are inconveniencing all drivers while padding their overtime. Neither of us had any alcohol that day but when he asked where we were headed, I leaned over & said, “that way”. He belly laughed.
I agree I have never seen a decision getting switched if a supervisor shows up (although not so long ago a young man was pulled over for DUI. He completely denied having anything to drink, did the whole routine of walking a straight line and also blew a 0.0 on a breathalyzer. The cop arrested him for DUI anyway.) He is suing the police for a wrongful arrest and they, of course, claimed qualified immunity which a court recently denied so the cop can get sued. I’d imagine a supervisor might have stopped that arrest from happening because it was so clearly wrong.
In the video like the OP mentions my favorite are when the driver asks for a supervisor and the second cop standing there says they are the supervisor and, of course, nothing changes.
Yeah - good qualifications. If you are minding your own business in my state (IL) if a cop asks your name, you can ask what their reasonable suspicion is. I’m pretty sure cops are given considerable leeway in terms of whether they suspect a current/past/future crime - but not my expertise. And responding to a phone call ought not be reasonable cause.
Depending on how the interaction is going, you’ll have to decide what you do/don’t say. Likely a good practice to simply ask, “What is your reasonable suspicion?” “Am I being detained/free to go?” A person’s choice on how to respond might vary depending on countless factors.
It takes considerable confidence to stand up to an aggressive, heavily armed and armored cop. And can cost you - at the very least - considerable time/inconvenience. I admire many of the folk I see who do stand up for their rights.
The guy who gave the famous lecture “Never talk to cops” says that a minor traffic stop is the one exception to the rule since you can talk your way out of 10mph over or rolling through a stop sign. I know when a cop asked me where I was going? (work), what do I do? (math teacher), what is the Law of Sines (I tell him), he let me go. Another time I explained that I thought all county roads were 55mph and since I didn’t see a sign, I was going 55. He let me go.
And for the record, that was the second time that I had someone test me about being a math teacher by asking me the law of sines. The other time was the Disneyland Jungle Cruise operator.
Are you a long-haired freaky person?
♫ *Sines, sines *
*Everywhere asked about sines…*♫