You made it sound like you think English civilization is going to be eradicated. I was saying it’s not likely.
I don’t follow. What has the economy got to do with it? Muslims have to keep coming in to keep it going, or you need a certain amount of non-Muslims… what?
So I should let intolerant and extremist followers of Islam work in this country because I’ll get a good pension at the end of my working life? That would mean I’d be as bad as them. Erm no thanks, and there are plenty of other countries in Asia where people can come here to work from.
No no, what I’m getting at as the economy grows and the level of British birth rates shrink, we’ll need more immigrants to fill the gaps. As the majority of them are Muslims from countries which dislike our policies and way of life, its going to become a matter of concern, some Muslims are decent and tolerant, but are usually marginalised by the loudmouth extremists of Islam.
But in the future it will be eventually be marginalised. It’s a possibility.
I’ve been to Auschwitz. I don’t see that a historical pissing-contest will help.
Of course the Holocaust has little to do with the average kid in the Middle East, when there’s the occupation of Palestine, the persecution of Kurds, the overbearing influence of the US in Saudi at the expense of that country’s long-term stability, Kashmir, now Iraq,…
But the Holocaust has little to do with me directly, either. I know nobody who was directly touched by it. I don’t see everyday consequences from it. That’s why people my age will come out with the predictable age-old stereotype slurs about Jews. They have little comprehension of what the Holocaust involved. None of us do, because none of us can imagine a European city with a large Jewish population. Cheetham Hill just doesn’t compare.
So you’ve nothing against being dominated by Hindu cultures, for example? Just Islam?
Indeed. I never thought I would see racism blossoming in countries like Ireland and Denmark. How dissapointing!!
Butwe learned to stop so much of the hate didn’t we? We learnt that we can’t go on doing this or we’d end up doing that.
Muslims persecute Kurds, we don’t. I could go on and on about these things you’ve brought up, like how Israel shouldn’t show the Palestinians that ‘terror works’ and that Iraq is now free from a tyrant mass murderor, or that the Majority of people in Kashmir want to remain in democratic India. What I’m getting at about Europe is that I don’t want to see a civilisation thats been through so much in rights and religion to succumb to people who’ve immigrated from a place where its 150-300 years backward.
Hinduism is a national religion, but I just want to see more equality and diversity in the people who we bring in, not just more of the same. Either this, or more emphasis on teaching them how to intergrate and be more tolerant of the society they live in.
And your proposed solution is what? When you’re talking about such large numbers of people, they cannot all be extremists and moderation and Westernization will occur.
Again, you’ve shown no reason that your culture shouldn’t evolve like everybody else’s.
There aren’t many countries in Europe with huge numbers of Saudi immigrants (outside Hilton hotels, I mean).
Time will tell. IMO, 60 years is too short a time span by far to really know if the Holocaust has fundamentally changed things.
Secular Turkey, prospective EU member and part of the ‘coalition of the willing’, does.
You have still to provide a scrap of evidence that Europe will ‘succumb’ to anything at all. You seem to be working on gut instinct alone. And where on earth does this ‘150-300 years’ comment come from? What are your defining features of eighteenth and nineteenth century Europe that make it such a turning point?
‘More of the same’? You mean ‘more Muslims’? What makes all Muslims identical?
I’d prefer such lessons were targeted at the average white teenager. It’d reap greater results (assuming these lessons are as effective as you suppose…)
What a silly thread. I live in the US and am an agnostic. I happen to know many people from the Middle East and Africa. They range from devout Muslims, devout Christians, and in the middle. I could really not care less if Muslims dominated the US. Probably wouldn’t be worse than the Christians dominating politics around here. I’m quite tolerant of other religions. An African woman I work with was actually shocked that I was totally indifferent to whether or not there was a god. I explained my position, and we get along quite well. There’s a point here somewhere.
Tell me, has Islamic society had its reformation or renaissance? Europe with its present birth rate declining, and in some areas like Italy and Spain where its barely keeping up with replacement of one birth for every one person who dies, need immigration to keep their economies going, to plug job gaps, skills shortages etc, this can and I believe will eventually rise to the levels of seeing the Muslim faith and population gain rapid rise in certain areas of Europe. How is this so flawed to make an assumption of? It doesn’t take a genius to think that;
A) We’re the trillion dollar Economies of the Old World, which makes the people who live in 3rd World conditions right next door (Hello Algeria and Lybia) very attacted to the opportunities they can have.
B) We’re the most tolerant of different cultures, which makes it easy to exploit and use to their own advantage.
C) That with offers of high salaries to plug skills gaps, that people will come to work here no matter in most cases where they are from or their background.
and…
D) Most governments have been ignorant of the Islamic communities practises and extremism for some time until 9/11, and that extremism is on the rise because our policies towards the M.E is fuelling the anger which the Muslim community feels towards the West, many of which emigrate here.
You do realise that the idea of a true renaissance, as in a reawakening to lost ideals, is nothing more than myth? The Dark Ages weren’t so dark.
D’oh! People like Abu Hamza have been on watchlists for many many years. But I’m sure you recognise the balance between preventing incitement and preserving free speech, and the difficulties involved.
Their faith?
Not everyone shares your viewpoint, even though they should. But this doesn’t mean peoples fears and worries should be ignored. How do you know if it wouldn’t be worse?
So they couldn’t work for both then? Are you implying that only White people are predujice? If so, what planet do you live on?
And the reformation? Or the age of enlightenment? Those were myths too right?
So all Christians are identical? All atheists?
Of course not. But everything you’ve said so far suggests that you think Muslims have a uniquely prejudiced outlook. Do you deny this?
Which is quite different from extremism, and their faith is not uniform.
Your idea of teaching people to appreciate your culture and adjust to suit you is vaguely facist…
Yep. What am getting at is that if they ever got to the stage where our society got replaced by them, do you think you would have the amount of freedom you enjoy today? Freedom to drink, freedom of sex and relationships with the same gender? Sexual education? Womens rights to choose, to wear what they want, do whatever they want?