camille:
Have you considered the possibility that you don’t understand his point? Because I see something different.
He’s got physical problems of his own, and so does his wife. Read his posts again. He has given examples that demonstrate understanding, because he (and his wife) have encountered the same thing ; the only difference is his (and her) way of dealing with it. Not every disabled person reacts in the same way to the type of behavior you are venting about. Why is that so hard for you to accept?
It just doesn’t make sense to me that you think it’s okay to be nasty to other disabled people in this thread because they have a different personality than you. Doesn’t* that* go against the point of your OP?
If someone sincerely apologizes, and continues to explain themselves - in the face of being called shit - making further demands looks petty.
That’s my point.
If there is some past history/beef with other posters I’m not familiar with, then disregard this post, but just from what I see here it seems to me you are overreacting to some of the posters.
BTW, you couldn’t even comprehend or explain your own replies to my post in this thread, yet you demand demonstrations of total understanding?! Think about that.
I got confused with a few different replies while multiquoting. What does that have to do with anything? And Dropzone has not demonstrated he has understood the point of this OP because saying I “handled myself poorly” demonstrates a misunderstanding of the OP. I handled myself extremely well. I simply came here to vent and to hopefully open a few eyes. And saying I’m being “nasty to other disable people” is laughable". I was being nasty to someone was nasty with me, in the Pit. And Dropzone has NOT demonstrated an understanding of my point. Still.
Funniest thing I’ve read all day.
dropzone:
Bro, I spent a decade upgrading thousands of elevators to meet the Americans with Disabilities Act so people who happen to use wheelchairs could use them. Ten years improving the lives of countless people, from 1990 until well beyond today. What have you done beyond whining on a message board?
That is great and I applaud you for that. Seriously. But what in the world does that have to do with my question to you to please tell me the essence of my OP. I’m not discussing what I have or haven’t done with my life in advocating for those with disabilities, as that is not what this thread is about.
Fiveroptic:
He used his real name as his username when he first joined. He also has linked to various articles that used his real name. I don’t think he has ever tried to be anonymous and most of us know his real name. I didn’t see it as gratuitous use, I saw it as just using a guy’s name.
Ambivalid , however, may disagree.
Well yes, when I first joined I did use my real name as my username as I was joining because I wanted to discuss incidents in newspaper articles that featured pictures of me and used my real name. So I didn’t see the point in trying to use a fake name when my real name was right there in the article being discussed. I also wasn’t looking at the long term.
However, I did change my username. I wouldn’t think people would think I still wanted to be addressed by my real name after changing it to what it is now. However, many people still do refer to me by my first name. While this doesn’t really bother me to the level where I felt like making an issue out of it, now that it’s brought up, I’d rather be addressed by the screenname I have here.
While most of those who still call me “Jamie” do so just as Fiveroptic does here (just using a guy’s name) I feel as though some others do it out of some sense of, idk, disrespect or malice. So I would prefer my real name be dropped from use but I don’t think that will really happen and I don’t really care.
Ambivalid:
While most of those who still call me “Jamie” do so just as Fiveroptic does here (just using a guy’s name) I feel as though some others do it out of some sense of, idk, disrespect or malice. So I would prefer my real name be dropped from use but I don’t think that will really happen and I don’t really care.
Although I often find your personality to be rather odious, I did not call you your real name out of disrespect. I used your name because for some reason you are probably the only poster on here whose name I actually know. Since you prefer people not to use it, I won’t use it in the future.
Ambivalid:
That is great and I applaud you for that. Seriously. But what in the world does that have to do with my question to you to please tell me the essence of my OP. I’m not discussing what I have or haven’t done with my life in advocating for those with disabilities, as that is not what this thread is about.
As I told you many times, you felt belittled by that hygienist when she saw you only as a a wheelchair, not a person, and you run into this all the time. Now fuck off, troll.
Sorry, but I don’t give apologies unless they’re deserved, and IIRC we have always gotten along just fine. I do have a “Sorrybut” left over, though.
dropzone:
So I’m not supposed to open doors for people in wheelchairs because that belittles them? Tomorrow I’ll tell my wife, “You’re on your own, honey. It’s for the good of your self-esteem. No, no, I know what a pain in the ass it is, but someday you’ll thank me.”
dropzone:
Harumph! I come by my ignorance naturally. There is nothing willfu…okay, in this one little case I might have chosen to misinterpret your message, the same way many actually ignorant people would. In reality I give gimps every bit of the same lack of consideration I do everybody else. Except Crips, who I respect because they scare me.
As for your OP, yeah, you were hoping that the hygienist would see past your chair and see you as the manly man you are, and it hurt you that she really saw you as enfeebled, like her grannie. Like all of us, she had taken what experiences she had and attempted to build a worldview around them. You didn’t fit in that worldview and it embarrassed her enough to that she tried to make nice with lame smalltalk and explanation. Get the fuck over it and quit bitching about this kind person who realized she offended you and who now has an expanded definition of disabled people.
dropzone:
If you wanted a sympathetic lovefest you should have posted in MPSIMS, though it seems like you are mostly getting one anyway. The thing is, I know what you are saying. I don’t get around so well myself, and it’s embarrassing when nice people hold elevators until I can get there. They don’t know that it sometimes feels like they are rubbing my nose in my being old and slow, BUT THAT’S NOT WHAT THEY ARE FEELING. They are just being nice.
For fuck’s sake, get over yourself. You’ve been the guy in a double-wide chair so you have room for the chip on your shoulder since you started here, and though you’ve branched out from there, your OP shows that it’s something that still motivates you. Be a better man and let people be nice without letting it eat at you. You’ll be in that chair for life and it’s time to stop imagining yet another downside to it. And I mean “imagine.” That hygienist didn’t insult you. You just chose to take it that way. The slight was all in your head.
Grow up.
dropzone:
Yeah, it sucks, but it wasn’t intentional on her part. In my interpretation I gave her the benefit of a doubt, and assumed it was embarrassed yammering by a girl barely out of her teens who knows better now. But she may not. A lot of people are clueless like that, and no amount of bitching about it will fix them. Anyway, for now it seems that Ambivalid will continue to take events like it personally, which will be mentally exhausting if he keeps it up for the rest of his life. It’s a case where I am empathetic, but not sympathetic.
dropzone:
Thick in what way? I’m honestly curious, which I know means that some people will see as a chance to pile on me, but really, what is wrong with this take on the situation?
Ambivalid is offered help by a person.
He demurs and demonstrates why doesn’t need it.
Instead of just saying, “Oh,” the person says something that can be construed as comparing him with her grannie, which is something he had just demonstrated was a false comparison.
Ambivalid chooses to take it badly, which can be understood because he gets patronized a lot.
I tell him to suck it up because he will have to live with people who don’t know him underestimating his capabilities, and then being accidentally patronizing the rest of his life. They are basing their assumptions on what they are familiar with. Ambivalid is an outlier when it comes to people in wheelchairs,and more power to him. However, he needs a thicker skin. Patronizing kindness is, after all, better than abuse.
dropzone:
I checked with a local expert, my wife, who is disabled and a former medical worker. Yes, she wearies of being treated “like I’m seven” and the worst offenders are medical people, but she defended them (to a slight extent) by saying they work with a lot of children, drunks (“some people need a snootful because they’re afraid of going to the dentist”), and people who are in far worse shape than Ambivalid . “Tell him the hygienist noticed how built he is and wanted to touch him. She’s a dirty old lady.” In fact, she repeated “dirty old lady” several times during the conversation. I’m not sure what that says about her. Okay, I am sure, but I’ve come to accept it.
dropzone:
Okay, that’s a good point, Ambi . And more grist for my deeply held conviction that most people are morons. I usually expect it and roll my eyes accordingly, but that one, versus the hygienist, is the one that would have set me off. Publicly.
dropzone:
Are you saying that none of the guys on dating sites are married with children? I thought they ALL were.
One person’s asshole is another person’s idiot, I guess. I’ve worked long and hard to get past taking everything personally, to stop seeing offense where none was intended. Or even where it was intended (still love ya, Miller !).
My wife (more surgery Wednesday) told of a time she didn’t let a patronizing, “When you’re my age you’ll understand the world better,” go. She snapped, “How young do you think I am?” The elderly lady guessed far younger than she is, so she said, “Close enough,” and let it slide. But the dialysis techs are getting on her very last nerve.
Ambi , I apologize if it seemed like I didn’t understand your OP and was a jerk. I’m closer than you know, but too old and tired to fight it for longer than 30 seconds.
dropzone:
So coming around to your way of thinking is chopped liver? I apologize deeply for making an effort to see the issue through your eyes and change my thinking accordingly. In the future I will disagree with everything you say purely out of spite, without bothering to pay any attention to what you say. :mad:
And yes, my wife is doing well after her surgery this morning, though she still thinks your hygienist is a dirty old lady who wanted to grope you. Thanks for asking.
dropzone:
Silly me! I thought I was teachable, that my beliefs were open to change. You don’t even read my posts subsequent to my joking one where I pretended to completely miss your point (post 120). You have decided that I’m “an ignorant shit” and you dismiss anything I say out of hand. You know who else has set ideas they can’t be bothered to change? The people who can’t see you as anything but a wheelchair. You have met the enemy and it is you.
dropzone:
How the fuck could that little paragraph be “the stupidest thing I have read in my lifetime?” Lefty , “sorrybut” is an accurate reflection of my opinion. I’m not going to grovel before Lord King Ambivalid because I don’t agree with him entirely, and he and you and Miller are not going to bully me into it. But where, exactly, is that post “stupid?” Go word by word if you must. I’m willing to listen to contrary opinions, unlike you.
You are exaggerating about those freshman essays and D’Anconia ’s posts, as those are supersaturated with stupid. And The Stars, Like Dust was more boring than stupid. Not a lot more, though.
dropzone:
But that is how he is acting toward me. He, by his very words, is not reading my posts, but is reacting to them based on an inaccurate idea of what I would say.
My contention all along is that yes, the hygienist acted like a boob, and yes, it can be wearing to be patronized like that all the time, but that I, personally, have a worldview where everybody is an idiot until they prove otherwise. My expectations are so low that I am surprised when people don’t behave like idiots. It saves wear and tear on the psyche. I told of how, halfway through this thread, I consulted with my handicapped kin and how it improved my understanding of Ambivalid ’s point, but as he’s shut his mind to me he doesn’t care. Just like the people who ignore the real him in favor of their preconceptions.
I’m sick of him playing the victim card (“Ooh, you talked mean to me!”) in order to extort an apology from me, which he’ll ignore anyway. And I’m sick of him and you being too dense to figure out that I agree with his point, but would attack the problem a different way. That’s what’s “incredibly moronic.”
dropzone:
Bro, I spent a decade upgrading thousands of elevators to meet the Americans with Disabilities Act so people who happen to use wheelchairs could use them. Ten years improving the lives of countless people, from 1990 until well beyond today. What have you done beyond whining on a message board?
dropzone:
As I told you many times, you felt belittled by that hygienist when she saw you only as a a wheelchair, not a person, and you run into this all the time. Now fuck off, troll.
Ambivalid:
This really wasn’t anything bad natured, mean, unkind or anything, so please bear with me. This was more of a cumulative reaction I had more than the individual experience itself.snip >
*One thing I should mention is I’m not talking about the general public being somehow able to know the physical capabilities of one wheelchair user over another. I understand that most people have no experience whatsoever with spinal cord injury and wheelchair users and I wouldn’t expect such informed knowledge just by looking at me . What I am saying is that, just like you wouldn’t say that because you married a black man and lived together for ten years and got to know his behaviors, intelligence and trustworthiness, that you know the behaviors, intelligence and trustworthiness of all black men; you wouldn’t say that because you cared for your geriatric grandmother who became bound to a wheelchair, and became familiar with her abilities, problems, needs and limitations, that you know, understand and are familiar with the abilities, problems, needs and limitations of everyone who uses a wheelchair.
I’ve put all your posts in this thread here just to show that you don’t really understand my point. I included the portions of my OP that highlight exactly what the issue is and my feelings on the matter. You consistently say that I “got angry” and “handled it badly” and “took it personally”, etc. That is showing me that you either did not fully read the OP or you did comprehend it. You also say that you would have “handled it differently”. How so? You wouldn’t have been polite, friendly and chatty with the dental hygienist? Because that was exactly how I behaved throughout the appointment.
You also go on to say my second example of being seen as just a wheelchair, that of being mistaken for a black man who is a quadriplegic, was enough to justifiably “set you off” had it been you who was the one being objectified. But they are exactly the same thing. Exactly. Many people see wheelchair users as wheelchairs with people in them. Rather than people who use wheelchairs. I never accused the dental hygienist of doing anything intentionally negative in any way, shape or form. I didn’t get angry. I simply came here to vent and discuss a real life problem for those living with disability; especially those who use wheelchairs.
Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge:
Although I often find your personality to be rather odious, I did not call you your real name out of disrespect. I used your name because for some reason you are probably the only poster on here whose name I actually know. Since you prefer people not to use it, I won’t use it in the future.
Fair enough. And thank you.
Fine. You did. And I agreed, several times, but my agreement was colored by my firm conviction that you’re a jerk, have generally been one here, and probably have been one all of your life. There are vanishingly few people here I actively dislike, but you made the group. Congratulations.
dropzone:
Fine. You did. And I agreed, several times, but my agreement was colored by my firm conviction that you’re a jerk, have generally been one here, and probably have been one all of your life. There are vanishingly few people here I actively dislike, but you made the group. Congratulations.
Ok. This makes things a bit clearer. Thank you. And of course you are entitled to your opinion. It never makes one feel good to be called a jerk but in this case in particular it also doesn’t make me feel bad. Not one bit.
Well, turnabout is fair play. You called me names. I called you names. We cleared the air. Now, by the rules of the playground, we can be friends. Shake?
Good. Who can we pick on together?
Well… there’s always russian heel , he’s been quite the jerk in this thread…
blinks in amazement
Y’all had a serious kumbahyah moment there, huh?
Believe it or not, I actually don’t like negative energy. This was one case of negative energy that was just stupid and I’d rather squash it than extend it. The particular details are irrelevant at this point.
Exactly. And I see my young student is beginning to understand the Way of the Zone. Ambi of evolution-denial levels of inflexibility. I sincerely apologize for that. And I will continue to call him on things I disagree with, and I hope he does the same for me. No hard lessons are learned by being right.[sup]©[/sup]
If this thing keeps continuing, for the first time ever, maybe a thread will be moved **out **of the Pit.
