When did we all agree that "DELIVERED" means "LEFT SITTING ON THE GROUND NEAR YOUR HOUSE?"

In My Humble Opinion
1

This was triggered by a heart-string-tugging Christmas-themed USPS commercial with a postal worker carefully places a box on a patio table outside someone’s home before walking away.

It struck me that they are PORTRAYING this as a satisfactory delivery.

We, like most people, get a lot of online stuff delivered–especially this pandemic year–and some carriers do a better job than others (some will at least ring the doorbell and/or knock before leaving the package near the front door). I’ve never thought about it before this commercial, but literally zero carriers will attempt to hand over the package to me after I open the door. No one rings the bell and waits to see if I answer before leaving it…it’s just become commonplace to drop the box on the ground and FO.

We know porch-piracy is a big problem, so we are fairly diligent to keep an eye out or have someone grab the packages if we aren’t around.

However, all this has me thinking: Who declared this is a satisfactory form of “completed” delivery? This would be unacceptable for letter mail–throwing it on the ground near someone’s door–but it’s perfectly acceptable if it’s a parcel, even a small-enough-to-fit-in-the-mail-box package. I don’t understand how/who/why this practice became mainstream.

ISTM unless the package is in my hands, it’s not delivered. And ISTM that if said package was left unattended on the ground and someone else stole it, the carrier should be responsible, but from what I understand, after the carrier marks it as “delivered” they are no longer responsible for it.

Again, this isn’t an airing of grievances or anything–no major theft has happened to me–It just seems like society has entered into a tacit agreement that a box left on the ground is considered “delivered,” and if that is the universal agreement, is there a method to universally opt out?

I know USPS has a somewhat complicated log-in system that allows you to make specific drop-off requests, as well as Amazon, but by default they just yeet the package near your door. But some carriers do not give you options…

Is it a matter of legal consequence? Could one sue a carrier for stolen packages? What are the rules/regulations on said practice? The more I think about it, it’s an incredible exercise in trust and faith in fellow man…not at all the same as USPS mail delivery, which if someone steals, it’s a FELONY. As far as I know stealing a box off a porch is just petty larceny, not a federal crime? Shouldn’t both be treated equally criminal?

2

Good questions. I’m kinda shocked at what I see. Only thing I’d suggest is that when you order, you carefully read the fine print as to what constitutes delivery, and who bears the cost of any loss. That language will affect any liability.

3

The U.S. Postal Service is a federal agency. Interfering with their operations is a federal criminal offense. UPS, FedEx, DHL, etc., are private operators. There’s no “federal nexus.” Since they operate on an interstate basis, it seems like Congress could, if it wanted to, make interfering with private parcel delivery a federal offense, but, the FBI generally has more pressing issues than tracking down porch pirates.

As to when we all agreed that “DELIVERED” means “LEFT SITTING ON A PORCH”, probably about the time that having all of the adults in a household working outside the home, on the one hand, and most households receiving parcels not having servants, on the other hand, became the prevailing norm.

BTW, I don’t have a mail slot or secured mail box. My first class mail, as with the mail of everyone in my neighborhood, is “DELIVERED” to an unsecured mail box on the road. If anything, it’s less secure than my front porch, since a thief wouldn’t even have to pull off the road or get out of their car to pillage my mail box.

4

Given that the OP expresses a lot more opinions than asks factual questions, let’s move this to IMHO from GQ.

5

Time, efficiency of delivery. I think In-person contact must add at least 50% to the amount of time required.

All the delivery services offer signature confirmation for an extra charge. With COVID, that seems to just mean they ring the doorbell and walk away, but presumably that will go back to normal.

But the likes of Amazon is never going to go with that, except for very high value items. Not just for cost, but because half the packages would never get delivered. I think Amazon’s approach is to track customer behavior. If a good customer says something didn’t get delivered, they don’t conduct some forensic analysis, they just refund you or send another one. If an address starts losing packages regularly, or if a customer shows a pattern of claiming half their packages didn’t arrive, they blacklist the customer or the address. If the latter, it’s up to you to find a secure dropoff address or start using a P.O.Box or a locker.

6

Nobody ever asked. USPS, FedEx, and UPS (and everyone else) decided for us, and as the recipients and not the sender, you have almost zero recourse. Even if you are the sender, there’s very limited options for satisfaction if your shipment is messed up.

Multiple times I’ve received a postcard from the USPS after expecting and not receiving a package that basically amounts to: “We lost your stuff. Our bad!” And that’s it. No options for actions you can take, nothing.

The other services don’t even do that. You have to jump through their hoops, only to get told “Sorry, contact the sender, so we can promptly tell them to go fuck themselves, too.”

7

This is the part that fascinates me…it just seems like a societal norm we’ve just kind of bought into, but I wonder where the law falls on such subject.

I’ve not had a lot of experience with fighting it out over a stolen package, but I have had experiences where one way or the other, something was marked as “delivered” but I never got it. The carrier puts the burden on the sender (seller) who already has the money and thus little motivation for following up on it.

I can imagine someone suing over the matter, and I wonder if the legal definition of a completed delivery requires visual observation that the package was left with an individual or if, for example, Amazon’s system of drivers snapping a quick photo of a package on the porch is legally sufficient to be considered “delivered.”

In theory a thief could just wait 2 seconds after the photo and abscond…

8

I found this but I don’t know that it specifies…

9

Pre-COVID, all the carriers rang my bell and handed me the package if I answered and left it if a signature was not required and I didn’t answer. The only thing that has changed is some signature-required packages and certified letters are now being left without a signature. Which is good in some ways because I no longer have to go pick-up those items at UPS/the post office/Fed Ex but bad because the shipper paid for a signature as proof of delivery but didn’t get it.

When I haven’t received a package that was supposedly delivered, I never had to jump through hoops to get it replaced- the shipper just sent a new one. Maybe they jump through hops with the carrier but I never had to.

10

My wife gets wine delivered and you’re supposed to show ID that you’re over 21 and sign for the delivery and in most cases they just wave at me through the glass and drop off the package. I’m not sure what they would do if no one was home.

The worst deliveries around here are by the post office where they may either deliver to the house or drop it by the mail box. Out mail box is a block away and we don’t always drive by it coming home. I had a $350 100 year old book delivery that was left sitting next to the mailbox this week We’re not sure when it was delivered or how long it sat there luckily it was packaged well so the book arrived in good shape. We received no notice that it had even been shipped let alone delivered so it was dumb luck we grabbed it as soon as we did.

11

This looks like a good place to post Mark Rober’s Glitterbomb 3.0 – several improvements over last year’s model.

12

Where I live, the only carrier that rings the doorbell is my local USPS carrier. Amazon, FedEx, UPS, you’re on your own. I recently had a not cheap laptop just left on the porch. :angry:

13

Last week a bunch of folks in my neighborhood were complaining that a carrier left their packages at the end of their driveway by the street. Even if you tried, you could not possibly make it easier to damage or steal that package.

Oh well. I reckon we’re supposed to be thankful that good old capitalist efficiency has figured out how to shave a penny off the cost of delivery, which I’m totally sure will be realized as consumer savings any minute now. :roll_eyes:

14

I’d love to hear anecdotes about lost/stolen packages and the available recourse/eventual outcome.

I was unaware Amazon would unilaterally refund/replace a lost or stolen item.

I recently had two ordeals: 1, I ordered a very expensive pair of shoes for my wedding. Tracking the package, I was HIGHLY alarmed when I saw it went to NY instead of my state. After a terse back and forth w the seller, who could prove the confirmed shipping address on his forms was in NY even though it showed my confirmed address on my end, we split the legwork and I called PayPal and he called eBay. The guy at PP was all set to issue a unilateral refund, even though he confirmed by going into the seller’s account that in fact he was told to ship to NY.

Turns out, since they are a particular sneaker, and apparently there’s high occurrence of fakes/fraud, so eBay now has each of them shipped first to an intermediary professional authenticator who certifies the shoes (and tags them with an RFID chip you can scan) before THEN shipping them to the buyer. The seller did not know this; I did not know this; Paypal did not know this–it was only when the seller got on the horn with a human that it was explained. WHEW. Crisis averted–but I found it interesting how quick PP was willing to just give me the money.

Issue the 2nd: I bought an item off eBay and the seller listed a DHL eCommerce tracking #. For days the tracking didn’t update, then the “expected delivery date” came and went. The seller was banned from eBay and the item/listing banned/removed. So I had no recourse to contact the seller, no way to leave feedback, no way to request a return, nothing…

PP would not move on the issue because the tracking # was provided and they assumed it was out for delivery. I insisted the # was fraudulent, pointed out DHL doesn’t recognize the number, their system flagged the “carrier” as “NONE,” that the seller was banned, pointed out he was unverified on PP AND that his email was Russian. They told me to keep waiting.

I finally figured out a way to contact a human being at eBay (buyers really have VERY FEW ways to contact eBay) and he immediately issued a refund.

…funny thing is…the package actually really did come, albeit it forever and ever later. And it contained the item I was attempting to buy…tho it appears to be counterfeit, which I presume is why he was banned.

15

Furniture stores lately are pulling this kind of crap too. “Free delivery” means they will drive a truck to your house and dump your stuff at the end of your driveway. You want it brought inside? That’s another $40-50 per item. (Plus the delivery guys expect to get tipped, too.)

16

Leaving a delivery at the end of a driveway sounds like a nightmare! But also it sounds like a nightmare for delivery people to have to knock, wait, and hand off a package. I mean like, how many people are home during the day? Even the retired people I know aren’t home during the day. Heck, I AM home during the day and you know what? My packages usually show up after I leave the house in the evening (shopping, gym, family visits, etc).

Thankfully I live in a bucolic little neighborhood full of dumpy houses so no one expects to find high-end items on our porches, so I’m not aware of any porch pirating here. I’m sure it’s sketchier in other places.

I really can’t imagine how delivery would work if confirmation, handing a package to a human, was the norm and not an extra added service.

17

I work from home (even before the pandemic) so I am home and hear the doorbell ring when we get a delivery, but I never go up and get the package right away unless they specifically want me to sign for it (in which case I am very annoyed). I am busy. If I was in the office, I wouldn’t want to have my work interrupted to run to the door to grab a package. I’d rather they just leave it.

We have a gate in front of our house, so deliveries get left just inside the gate. That’s fine by me. And if anything ever got stolen (so far it hasn’t), Amazon has never given me issues with getting a replacement for a failed delivery of any kind, and I’m sure they’d take care of it if the package was stolen as well.

18

Remember the good old days, when they’d leave a sticky note on your door saying you weren’t home, when you were sitting there all day waiting for a delivery, and then you had to drag your ass down to their warehouse to pickup the package yourself?

Pepperidge Farm Remembers

19

USPS won’t come down our driveway (too steep). So if it doesn’t fit in our mailbox, they bring it back to the post office and leave us a note. It’s a huge pain, as there is always a long line at the post office.

20

I used to drive delivery and around the holidays our company would contract to take a shit ton of overflow FedEx and UPS packages and holy shit, that was a nightmare. They’d throw a hundred packages into my truck with no way to use the FedEx scan system and I had to do my own routing with no real guarantee those hundred packages were geographically near to each other. Gig work Amazon drivers are expected to make a drop something like every three minutes and how in fuck does THAT work? They don’t have time to wait for every person to drag their butts to the door and whatever YOUR objection or preference is, it ain’t a patch on losing their job so they’re gonna do what’s fastest.

I have a standing instruction on all Amazon packages to leave them in the back of my pickup truck (it has a camper shell on it) but that’s a problem these days because my son in law is using the truck and there’s no guarantee it’s gonna be around when the packages come in. Amazon is pretty good about it though, they send me a text telling me the driver is having difficulties and I have a five minute window to text back with an alternate plan–if I don’t they just pick a spot, take a pic and call it good. Okay by me, they usually do pretty well with it.

I have a friend who works for USPS who suggested I put a 30 gallon trash can near the door with a cinderblock weighting it down and a label that instructs drivers to drop packages in the can. That’s actually a stellar idea and I think I’ll implement it because a Rubbermaid trash can lid fits tight and will protect the packages.